I don’t see any issue regarding your sons.
You let each son choose his own path based on his own interests.
Individuals learn & grow differently and at different times during one’s life.
1 Like
Yeah, not that I am saying it is always a mistake to try to be recruited. But if you very early on decide you are not going to try to do that, you are then potentially free to make all your other sports participation decisions purely based on what you actually want to do for the experience of it. Would rather do a science camp this summer than a sports camp? Fine. Rather do a different sport out of season than club for your main sport? Also fine. Want to just quit? Yep, that’s fine too.
But even then, as noted above, sometimes the more competitive HS coaches are pressuring kids to prioritize their sport out of season just to start, get playing time, or whatever. And of course it is fine to simply observe the club kids might well have an advantage for stuff like that, and then you can make your call. But I think the coaches should not try to put a finger on that scale.
3 Likes
I didn’t get much past this point, so if there is more that puts this comment in perspective then it’s egg on my face.
Just a few thoughts:
Drill team and cheerleading should be out of the discussion. No, those activities generally aren’t relevant for admission. Sports is a whole other matter.
For D-1 schools, yes, your kid needs to be D-1 recruitable. But there are other levels of play. There’s lower level D-1 (and there is a huge range there depending on the sport) and then D2 and D3. There is a kid out there right now being recruited to play soccer at D3 Emory who Stanford or Cal would not consider recruiting for even a half a second. There is also a kid being recruited to play D-1 soccer at schools like Colgate, Lafayette, Bucknell and a host of other D1 schools that likewise will not get Cal’s or Stanford’s attention. Then you jump down to D3 and all the many fine schools in that division.
For this to be a really meaningful discussion, pick a few sports on which to focus. As another poster mentioned, the “low barrier to entry” sports like soccer expose your gene pool to the gen pop gene pool. You’re born with size, speed and twitch … you don’t really work or train those things into reality. But you’re not born to fence or golf (though of course some are more naturally adept than others).
College counselor quality varies as much as any professional service, at least in my travels. There is one here in the Seattle area … I sometimes feel like I should share the name, but I don’t have it in me to do it … who is very reputable and knows their stuff, but on the sports piece they’re CLUELESS. I mean it. She told my full IB D high test scores athlete, who was in recruiting discussions with the Penn coach, that Penn “doesn’t recruit for athletics” and sports will have “no bearing on your admission there”. Right in front me!
Your point about grades is hard to dispute. But, again, it really depends on the school and the grade degradation. For a kid who is being recruited, the sports piece is huge. It’s really situational.
Of course, there is a ton of factual context and nuance to this topic. Yes, for a lot of/many kids, sports won’t get them into college. The kid needs to be notably good in the sport, even for D3. But the kid doesn’t need to be a major D-1 recruit you’re reading about in the newspaper for it to matter (I recognize you didn’t write “major”, but I’m assuming that’s the gist of the advice you were getting).
1 Like
If she enjoys it, that is fine. It sounds like you realize it will be weighted the same way as being president of the French club or a yearbook editor-all nice standard extracurriculars which can offer valuable life skills. None is superior to the others in that regard, or in college admissions.
2 Likes
We are going to end up with this debate with D25. I do NOT want her doing “club” dance next year. It was always her goal to go to Dance Worlds competition and she is competing there this year. I love what dance had taught her but I’m realistic to her skill as well. She is not on the top level team now as a junior and that won’t change next year. I am literally spending about 10k a year in her dance fees, costumes, and travel and I got hit with medical debt this past year and I have to catch up financially. She can do the high school dance team but other than that I have to say no for the first time. The conversation is not going to be pretty at my house.
2 Likes
Yep, though I do think (or hope!) participation in a less popular sport might help her app stand out.
Interesting discussion.
-
I don’t think participating in sports you love is a waste at all. Unless your kid is a true talent then they can be “good enough”. Enjoyment of the sport is great.
-
Sports and other EC’s–sports, band, theater–can be a time suck on your kid’s time to the detriment of academics. And worse to the family dynamic. Keeping up with games, practices etc is exhausting for both kid and family. Some ECs are less demanding in time (or at least on your own schedule)–the debate club teaches good skills but usually doesn’t require a chunk of family time–but comes with a good pay off.
Better to have dinner together nightly than stretch to go to a practice.I
- Academic ECs (vs sports) can have bigger pay offs for college apps depending on talent.
I’ve had friends who give up every weekend, dinner, disrupt the entire family (plus siblings) to focus on sports practice. I wouldn’t do it.
That said: It is SO easy to get dragged in. Sports/clubs can be like joining a cult (but not). It’s a group you join with like-minded people, you’ve got a goal, it’s fun.
My problem is when it takes over real life which is easy especially when kids are in HS with high demand programs. There’s a point when you may feel like the school is now acting as parent.
3 Likes
I really do wish that high schools had more recreational type sport programs (meaning a step below varsity, junior varsity). My son does a club recreational basketball league which is just Saturday nights and he loves it and included it on his college applications. I have no idea how admissions viewed it, but to do varsity basketball would be a crazy amount of time. Totally worth it for a kid that LOVES basketball and for the one or two kids who have real potential, but for normal kids who like sports but don’t need to commit 20+ hours a week on a recreational sport. I think there is room for both. I don’t think there are a ton of opportunities to play at a recreational level, it is all so extreme, so competitive and so time consuming. Great for kids that want that but I wish the culture didn’t push that as the only alternative.
16 Likes
That makes particular sense when you realize colleges often have all of varsity, intercollegiate club, and organized intramural (not necessarily all in every sport, of course). So it would make sense if high schools also offered multiple levels like that.
2 Likes
There are probably colleges where sports ECs (non recruited) are privileged over other ECs. Small privates with full sets of sports teams that need a walk-on pool could be such colleges.
But big publics that the OP’s students applied to are not places where this is likely to be the case.
1 Like
I seem to recall that in Cal Newport’s book about getting into a good college, he advised that in choosing ECs for the purpose of college admissions, sports and music should be avoided because it’s hard to distinguish yourself without being nationally/internationally ranked. His argument was that lots of kids do those things, so one was better off in hobbies, activities, and pursuits that kids were generally not doing in large numbers.
Although that advice may be true, I am with the folks saying that high school life shouldn’t revolve around college admissions. And that there’s so much to be learned from sports and music participation at any level. Students should strive for the best grades possible in a course schedule appropriate to their interest, ability, and preparation. Beyond that, playing the college admissions game is a choice that might lead to regret, while playing a sport or instrument you love is its own reward now and great preparation for being a hard worker and resilient person later.
3 Likes
Under federal law, students under age 16 aren’t allowed to be employed more than 18 hours during a school week. I wish we had a similar time limit for sports. Any activity taking that much time is unwise.
5 Likes
I note there are also some intercollegiate sports where the top level is club and not formally recruited, and then some colleges will only play some other sports up to the club level.
There was an interesting article about the informal recruiting sometimes associated with such “Tier A” club sports at Brown–some of the coaches had informal relationships with Admissions that fell short of regular recruitment slots, but still helped them get desired players.
Some sports don’t have that sort of relationship with Admissions, but I have heard that Admissions might well have it on their bucket list anyway–like if they have a strong club sport they might at least be on the lookout for otherwise well-qualified applicants playing it at a high level in HS.
But all this is pretty niche. Obviously most athletes play popular sports where the top teams at their colleges recruit. And so if they are neither formal recruits nor what is sometimes called recruited walk-ons, they probably will get no more than normal EC consideration.
I always feel like there is a bit of a false dichotomy issue with these sorts of arguments.
Like, just to begin with, there are actually probably not that many varsity soccer captains with, say, top grades in the hardest courses and 1500+ SATs to begin with. I am not suggesting a negative correlation, but because these are going to be mostly uncorrelated areas of excellence, that is likely to be a rarer combination than having those grades and test scores and, say, doing well in academic-type competitions.
But OK, maybe that is not enough, but now you are that AND you really love 18th Century French literature, and in fact recited inspirational quotes from Voltaire, Rousseau, and Diderot during half time pep talks.
I feel like that person might have a shot.
I guess my point is if you are relying on any one thing, or just one highly-related family of things, then you are implicitly putting pressure on yourself to do that thing at such a high level that it distinguishes you from the many other people like you.
But if you do a combination of things that is inherently rare, I am not sure any one of those has to stand out like that.
5 Likes
OP- your sports son has the chance to re-invent himself in college- socially and academically.
He can- in fact- rediscover his love of science. He can seek out a nicer peer group. He can be the guy who gets ribbed- very gently- about being a reformed jock. I knew people like this in college. Sports had been their entire identify in HS and in their towns growing up- and then they showed up in college and became the guy who bakes elegant French pastry in the dorm kitchen on weekends or the woman who runs the coat drive for the homeless and play a pickup game of their sport on the weekends.
Both your kids sound fantastic, and neither of them has to be defined by their “old” identity once they leave home. When they sign up for the Monday night swing dancing lessons or the Tuesday night “viewing in the astronomy lab” nobody is going to care what they did back home.
6 Likes
I’m sure there are a lot more differences than you realize. One is more athletic and sports-minded. The other not. Both competitive but not necessarily in the same way.
Umm. Not. …Research, cases, speeches for debate are very much a culmination of prepared practice and learning. And coaching. It’s just a different track than sports.
2 Likes
Maybe not Cheerleading and Dance Teams because, despite being student athletes, the NCAA rules don’t recognize them as such. BUT, majors for Academic dance departments (and music performance and musical theater) are relevant. It might not carry the same weight as a DI athlete, but it’s more of a boost than if the student was a benchwarmer on a sports team
Delete
When our kids leave for college, a major parenting milestone occurs. A total shift happens. I bet every parent looks back and questions choices. I coached my kids and led heavy on sports to keep them off screens, make friends in their town that they would not know as well, to set goals and work hard, to learn to lose and win graciously, etc… I look back and wished that they learned to sing, have a hobby that works with their hands, had more involvement in the community… but then… what if they did all that? Would I have wished they played more sports…? The reflection when your boys about to go off to college - naturally has a lot of reflection…So your thoughts are valid… and keep thinking and looking at the same past in different paradigms… test assumptions… I bet in 4 years more data might offer value in both way worked out …
10 Likes
Agreed. Have same observation with lots of club sports in Bay Area.
3 Likes