<p>Seriously?</p>
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</p>
<p>You have been under the microscope here and I for one appreciate the moderate tone you are taking with those of us who are being rather harsh and making assumptions and letting our own personal histories color what we post, I know I’m one of them. Good luck to you.</p>
<p>It is very sad to read your posts Cecil. You should step back and re-read them. Whether or not it is true, you come off as controlling, arogant, elitist, and condescending. I am sure you love your son very much, but I wonder if he doesn’t hold back from telling you much of what is going on in his life for fear of being judged. We are definitely not hands-off parents. We have curfews, I insist on meeting parents before letting my son go to houses, we have expectations for behavior, etc. This is our 4th of 4 children- 2 are out of college and working professionally, 1 of those is married, and the 3rd is in college. The 4th is 15 and in high school, a 3-sport athlete, a 4.0 unweighted GPA and in honors. While we do monitor his activities and have restrictions, we would never try to control his life to the point of picking friends or activities, or interfering with his schoolwork. Through experience, we have learned that our children tend to be much stronger people by having made their own choices in life. Yes, they have made mistakes, some of them whoppers. But they have learned from their mistakes and in the end have made better choices as a result. The older ones have been extremely successful and call us very often to tell us what is going on in their lives and share their successes with us. I feel as if they would not be so anxious to do this if we had constantly questioned their choices as they were growing up. Maybe you come off on paper as worse than you are. Maybe your son does not have a problem with your attitude. I am sure that your wife would have a problem if she read your posts; I think most people would. If your system is working than go for it. But don’t ask advice here and then proceed to not only ignore the over-whelming response, but to argue back. If you know you are right, then why are you asking? Anyway, I have a feeling you don’t really care what we think, but love ranting about your superior parenting skills. I can’t even imagine how the poor girl who finally marries your son is going to be able to deal with you as a father-in-law!</p>
<p>One other thing to keep in mind: even if he met someone you felt was an appropriate match for him, you’d still have the same concerns about sex. Ms. Perfect can also get pregnant and can also come with STDs. So, IMO, raising this issue is a red herring. </p>
<p>Do you really WANT him to meet Ms. Perfect now? Do you really want him to go out there and put himself on the line and try to interest someone who might think he’s not good enough for her? This takes time and psychic energy which he’d probably be better off devoting to school right now. </p>
<p>Let it go. It would be different if she had a substance abuse problem or was shoplifiting or stealing things from your home. But if she’s just not quite as smart or as ambitious or whatever as you’d like, don’t worry about it.</p>
<p>I feel really sorry for your son on so many levels, I do not even know where to start.</p>
<p>A few things jump out at me:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>You seem blind to the possibility that you can give your kids bad advice. We all do at times. We make mistakes. Any parent who thinks otherwise lacks self-awareness enough to be a decent parent. </p></li>
<li><p>You seem to express pride that you have complete control over your kids. They listen to you, they know you would not give bad advice. To me, that isn’t raising a self-sufficient kid capable of making their own decisions, and their own mistakes. Who doesn’t trust themselves enough to question their parent’s advice. That is pretty scary to me. </p></li>
<li><p>Your kid is only 16 by god! He’s experimenting with dating, not planning a wedding. Sure you have to worry about disease and pregnancy, but those things matter regardless of the quality of the dating partner! Maybe you should focus more on those issues than your taste in women.</p></li>
<li><p>Your defensiveness and arrogance suggest she might actually be a pretty darn decent girl but you’ve just got your knickers in a twist because SHE has influence you no longer have. Get used to it. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>And grow up already. Sheesh.</p>
<p>Oh, brother. OP, you are denigrating your son because she’s not pretty enough? Oh, the horror – she has brains and values, is not demanding and is NICE!</p>
<p>Let me applaud your son for appreciating what really counts. (BTW – he may think she’s hot!)</p>
<p>OP, I agree with those who say you should remain silent regarding the merits of your son’s gf. (Or your perceived lack thereof.) Really. Don’t say a word. Don’t talk about your opinion of her to him.</p>
<p>However, as the mother of a teenage girl, I certainly hope you have advised your son on the compassionate way to break up. Texting, email, facebook, etc., are not compassionate. Even if your son is as wonderful as you think, one cannot assume that a he’ll live up that label when the relationship meets its natural end. Please “guide him through the land mines” and let him know what gentlemen do.</p>
<p>I type this as my 16 yo is in tears in the next room.</p>
<p>ACCecil,</p>
<p>You can be as defensive as you like on here, your privilege of cuorse. But take note: when you make a lot of different posts, and the majority of people responding to them repeatedly come away with the wrong impression of you, chances are that says more about you than the responders.</p>
<p>Okay. I’m back. I would’ve gotten here sooner but I darn near ran over a guy on a motor scooter on the way back. Thus, in addition to being a bad and controlling parent I have an utter disregard for the traffic laws of this or any other country. </p>
<p>I’m going to rock on with my bad self! </p>
<p>Pea, </p>
<p>To be honest with you I don’t take offense to anything written here about me, my sons or my wife. Some of the comments are from so far out in mamby pamby land that they are truly hysterically funny. </p>
<p>It didn’t take long before Happilyhelen came back and because she was pressured to be perfect project that concern onto my situation whether it was merited on not. Most of the replies are along the same lines. As you said, “letting our personal histories color” the advice given. There is a whole lot of coloring going on here. </p>
<p>Then we have the litany of people that feel sorry for me and my poor misbegotten sons because I am so controlling and elitist. Oh, I forgot condescending. Had to go back and look. Well, okay. If being an involved parent makes me controlling then I suppose that just the way it has to be. </p>
<p>Someone asked what my wife or sons would say if they knew I posted this here. I told my son on the way home from school and told him most people felt I shouldn’t interfere. I also told him why I was interefering. We had a darn good discussion about the whole issue. I only wish his little brother had been there, like he usual is, to listen and put in his two cents. That is the way we do everything. We talk it out. He doesn’t think I have any right to tell him who to date. I tell him how wrong he is. We laugh about it or argue a bit more but no one gets hurt. </p>
<p>What was that about allowing him to develop and think on his own? Oh, don’t worry. He’s going to turn out fine and don’t worry I won’t let the mamby pamby fear of losing him because I didn’t like his girlfriend affect the way I talk to him. Geez, people, do you live your entire lives in one fear after another? I would say yes except I try not to assume as much as most people here do before I open my mouth. </p>
<p>My wife would laugh. </p>
<p>She has a sense of humor. </p>
<p>More in second.</p>
<p>Frazzled Wrote:
OP, I’m wondering how you see your role as a father as your children grow older? Will you always want to exercise control over their choice of girlfriend/boyfriend, or are you mostly concerned because this is your son’s first experience?</p>
<p>Thanks for the honest question. Thanks for not frothing at the mouth with anger in your reply and for not making ridiculous over the top assumptions about me. </p>
<p>Anyway, my role as a father as my children grow up is to mentor and guide them to happiness whatever that might be. When Joe Kennedy Sr. made his kids competitive in everything he did was he hurting them or helping them reach their unlimited potential? When Tiger Woods’ dad showed his son how to play golf and forced him to practice, that jerk!, was he hurting him or helping him become a millionaire? </p>
<p>I help them avoid the land mines. I do that based on all the mistakes I’ve made and the wisdom I hope I have. </p>
<p>It does no good, after their legs and arms are blown off, to say, “watch out for that land mine!” In affect, that is what hands off parenting is. </p>
<p>I am the blocker so that they can run to daylight. </p>
<p>I clear the path so that they can get farther in life then I have, which is exactly what my dad did for me, and before some make assumptions, let me say I am not doing bad in life. </p>
<p>I will not want exercise control over who they date at a certain age but I will absolutely tell them up front out loud with zero apologies who I like and don’t like and I will tell them exactly why. No BS. No mumbo jumbo. No mamby pamby fears of alienating them. </p>
<p>Thanks for asking.</p>
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</p>
<p>This. You just claimed nobody gets hurt, which very well might be the case. However, the fact that you just admitted that you STILL feel like it’s your business to tell him who to date, even after most of the people, not to mention your own son, think that you should just stay out of it, is a little perplexing. If you don’t want to listen to that opinion, then why did you start this thread?</p>
<p>
Is that because you think your sons won’t be alienated; i.e., that it’s a scenario that never occurs, or that couldn’t occur in your case because your relationship with your boys is so solid? Or do you not fear alienating them because you don’t care whether or not you do? </p>
<p>Are you concerned at all about how your son feels when he learns that his father doesn’t respect his judgment regarding a first girlfriend? </p>
<p>If your father had responded the same way to you, how would you have felt?</p>
<p>Actually, we weren’t asking- you were. Hey if it works for you…</p>
<p>I’m confused. If you’re so sure that what you’re doing is right (and you’re getting mighty defensive about it), then what was the point of posting this thread at all? The title even says “What 2 do??” (by the way, I’m in <em>high school</em> and I don’t even substitute “2” for “to”). Options C and D were offer him money to break up with her and trick her into breaking up with him. That is not telling them “up front out loud and with zero apologies who I like and don’t like and I [telling] them exactly why.” That’s not “talk[ing] it out.” That’s not “no one gets hurt.” Do you see why most people here don’t seem to have the best impression of you?</p>
<p>It’s one thing to say “I don’t like Mary Sue and I think you can do better. It’s ok if you disagree, let’s talk it out and laugh about it!” and another to actively sabotage the relationship like you suggested in your opening post.</p>
<p>Also, I’m not “projecting” my pressure to be perfect on your situation. I’m sharing how my experience affected me and how it’s quite possible that your son is going through a similar experience. I don’t know you, that’s true, but the only way I can know you right now is through the words you post on this forum and, frankly, you sound like the embodiment of the worst stereotypes of CC parents. I have no idea if that’s true, but it’s how you come across right now. Besides, you had said earlier that you appreciated it when people gave advice based on their own experience. Stay consistent, please.</p>
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</p>
<p>Ditto. And ditto again. There isn’t enough money in the world to pay me to relive this age again.</p>
<p>I wasn’t going to post again and let me say that I am finding the posts on this thread both interesting and enlightening, on both sides.</p>
<p>ACCecil, before I get started, remember you brought up the example of Joe Kennedy. Whether he was a good father or not is debatable. He was so determined to control his daughter Rosemary that he sent her to a doctor for help with her willfulness. The doctor performed brain surgery and something went horribly wrong, it turned into a lobotomy and to this day she is institutionalized. (Actually it is possible she has passed on, I’m not sure.) She was very young when this happened.</p>
<p>Obviously you wouldn’t do something like that but you did bring up Joe Kennedy as an example of a parent you hold as a role model. The complete picture of him as a parent is much more nuanced than just the remarkable sons he raised.</p>
<p>Very well-stated happilyhelen. You sound very mature and “happy”!!!</p>
<p>Joe Kennedy Sr. helped make his sons womanizers and alcoholics, and stressed power over values. (Ever hear of Chappaquiddick?) Tiger Woods–well his father failed to inculcate much more than golf skills in Tiger. So he is a millionaire–he is also now a global laughingstock for his infantile, selfish behavior, and his golf game is crumbling.</p>
<p>Your son may have developed more mature values and an ability to respect character over flash or fleeting attractiveness–he sounds like he’s on the right path.</p>
<p>Cecil, were you a teen parent?</p>
<p>This thread is hysterical. I can’t help myself, I must add to the hilarity.
Yes, Tiger is the perfect man. I’m sure he and his money will be very happy together. </p>
<p>
I guess that depends on which of his kids we’re talking about, as Pea pointed out.</p>