<p>My daughter, a National Merit Commended Student with a perfect 800 in Writing and also an AP Scholar with Honors, is on the very shy end of the spectrum (pointed out by teachers as early as pre school) and also has bipolar 2 disorder. Of course, we thought a very small school, legandary for individualized attention from professors and tiny classes, with a quirky student body, would be the perfect fit – as did she. As it turns out, the very shy student often does NOT want the exposure that being on display in small classes affords them, nor do they want professors getting to know them one-on-one, or to be among very outspoken, opinionated young people, even when they themselves are unconventional. A painful lesson, but a transfer to a large, selective school in a huge city is what my daughter now feels will be the best route for her. After speaking with several shy adults I discovered,only some of them feel that small and intimate is comfortable – others would prefer to observe from within a large crowd and participate only through their submitted work, with no spotlight or expectation of “coming out of their shell”.</p>
<p>Not every school is right for every kid, of course. My shy D2 is thriving in an environment similar to the one your D is in. However, she went to a small, independent K-12 schools with small class sizes – 10-12 kids in a classroom was not uncommon. So she wasn’t going from the relative anonymity of a large public high schools with 30 kids/classroom to the environment where they do receive more attention. It isn’t a mistake for every student. Also, your D will eventually have to do some kind of work where she is the focus of attention for coworkers, her boss, and sometimes their boss – would you rather she made the transition as a freshman in college, or while trying to hold down a job for pay later on? Also, participation in small classes is good preparation for interview skills later and the inevitable meetings that make up some of everyone’s workday. </p>
<p>If her discomfort is paralyzing her ability to perform well in school or she has other reasons to not like the school, then she might benefit from the transfer. But she does have to be able to perform in real life after college – and forever observing from within the crowd does not help build the all the skills that would help her in that.</p>
<p>As intparent said, it isn’t a mistake for every student. </p>
<p>And the details of the environment matter – including details that it would be almost impossible to pick up before a student enrolls.</p>
<p>Small and intimate might actually work well if the atmosphere is supportive rather than confrontational.</p>
<p>I hear all that you’re saying and her therapist thought this imtimate and intense setting would be the best thing for her, but she was unable to perform and felt dangerously depressed (has now withdrawn). Maybe the relative anonymity of a large school and big city will help build her confidence and she can look to the career world through adult eyes when she’s gained more confidence. She is very sweet and very attractive, so people have always responded well to her, but her shyness is an obstacle, true, and in our culture, it just doesn’t seem accepted. I’ve been told by teachers along the way that she would do very well is an Asian culture, where extroversion is not valued, and humility is revered. I think most of the student body at her current school comes from elite private school backgrounds, and she is from a large (1600 in 4 grades), competitive, upper middle class public where she was in honors and AP classes. But her shyness was always an issue there too, though she learned to make do. Americans (we are 13th generation) just don’t accept shyness and think it’s something to be cured. I don’t know what to think about the job front: we “made” her take a job as a restaurant hostess this summer to help her deal with new environments and situations, and she hated every minute: was told she didn’t smile or make small talk enough.</p>
<p>Right, Marian: the professors seemed warm and nurturing but the students very “out there” – unconventional to the point of being so for shock value (or so it seemed). My daughter was overwhelmed by the radical culture, though we are very liberal, progressive people.Plus speaking in class was part of the curriculum and that wasn’t her (and may never be). I am the opposite, so difficult to relate, but she takes after her grandmother, who found a comfortable career as a university librarian for 40 years.</p>
<p>Librarians. Accountants. Editors. Graphic designers. Computer people of all sorts. There are lots of us who don’t have to rely on our (nonexistent) charisma to make a living. (I’m a editor, and I’m very good at it. I’m also a total dud in the personality department.) </p>
<p>The software world is especially good, I think. My son works in that environment, and there seems to be a high tolerance for the wide variations in people’s personalities. In that world, as long as you’re good at your job, people don’t seem to care about much else.</p>
<p>Thanks, Marian! Yes, editing is something she’s great at!</p>
<p>I don’t think she should expect to be able to fly under the radar at another university in her upper division classes in her department. Or any classes where participation is part of your grade.</p>
<p>Your post is interesting - I was chatting with a friend who has a shy son. He started out in a LAC for the same reasons you mention and ended up transferring to our state flagship and was much happier there. Like your daughter, he liked being one of many and thrived there. </p>
<p>My older S was accepted to the LAC I believe your daughter attended. He’s a writing/theater guy and on paper thought it was perfect but then we visited for accepted students day. As quirky as he is (and he’s VERY quirky) he found the students a little too much for his comfort zone. And he’s extremely outgoing. He ended up at a different quirky LAC and it’s been a nice match for him. </p>
<p>As Marian said, there are lots of careers that don’t require dazzling interpersonal skills. Your daughter will find her way.</p>
<p>Early this year we hired a young woman from HYPS. She is very soft spoken, doesn’t smile much and very shy. I wondered how she would do with clients. She turned out to be a star. Her coding ability is second to none, she is very good with clients 1:1 and is funny in a small group. Her colleagues didn’t know what to make of her initially, but now they have really warmed up to her. They try not to have her do large group presentation, but would ask her to write comprehensive respond to clients. </p>
<p>I am pretty certain there will be a right job for OP’s D some day. I also think OP’s take on a big school for the D maybe right. It is harder to hide in a smaller classroom. Of course, there is a different degrees of shyness and why someone is shy. Some people are shy because they are not confident (a bit of encouragement in a small classroom may do the trick), and some people just do not like to draw any attention to themselves.</p>
<p>Thanks, all, for the support! My daughter does not like a lot of attention drawn to her. She has won national poetry and photography awards (because her teachers and parents pushed her to submit) and was extremely uncomfortable at any award presentations where she didn’t have to say a thing, only stand up when her name was read. Some find this refreshing in a world of “selfies” and reality “stars”, but I know that a degree of self promotion is necessary to survive – she’ll figure that out too, as did her older sister, who is very socially reticent, and now works in the most social arena in the most competitive city in the world (talent agent in NYC)! For her, a small LAC worked ok; for daughter #2, it was agony.They’re both shy, but in different ways.</p>
<p>The problem with a larger university is that you are not forced out of your shell, so although classes might be more comfortable, it can be lonely in and out of class. If she is living on campus, that will help, but coming in after freshman year means she is not starting out with everyone else.</p>
<p>I also think I might know the LAC where she is now. One of mine also left that school and is happier at community college right now. She would not fare well in a large university right now. </p>
<p>Did you have your daughter registered with the disabilities office for the bipolar 2? Did she have extra advising, talk with professors about shyness, or have a therapist? There are things that can be done to help a student do better on a campus like this, just for others reading this thread.</p>
<p>That said, the campus I am thinking of does have some problems socially (beyond quirky, as someone said). But that does not mean that an LAC with a different social picture wouldn’t be a great solution for shy kids.</p>
<p>I myself prefer the relative anonymity of a large university but I attended much older and did not rely on the university for social contacts.</p>
<p>ps Online courses and even online programs can work wonderfully for someone who is shy. If grades depend on discussion, as they often do, then online discussion, which involves only writing, usually, can work really well for a student who is shy.</p>
<p>I just assumed that OP’s daughter had registered with the disabilities office but you’re so right, compmom, if she didn’t, she should wherever she ends up. My older S has problems with depression and is also deaf. For him, his smaller LAC works well because the small classes are an accommodation in and of itself. He’s found the disabilities office has been really supportive. He feels comfortable going to the coordinator if something is up. </p>
<p>Your suggestion of online courses is a good one too!</p>
<p>I am very shy and have struggled with anxiety and depression for years. What ended up being a good fit for me was being at a small residential college within a large university. The thought of being at a really small LAC just scared me so it was the best of both worlds. I liked being just a number in many classes and also liked the intimacy of small classes with a tightknit group. </p>
<p>Online classes were a godsend to me when I was required to talk. I can’t talk in large groups. It just doesn’t work. In a small group or 1:1, I’m fine. The online classes allowed me to actually carry on conversations with strangers without my anxiety getting in the way. </p>
<p>There is obviously no one-size-fits-all, but I’ve never really understood the logic of throwing a shy student into a small LAC. It seems like it would actually be a better place for more outgoing students.</p>
<p>Yes, indeed, she was certainly registered with disabilities services, who were very accommodating, thougthful and supportive. She had group thereapy once a week on campus(which she enjoyed), phone sessions with her psychologist and psychiatrist at home (an hour and 15 min away from campus), and a room mate with similar issues, whom she became very close with (though neither made any other friends whatsoever). As far as her bipolar 2, the administration, support staff and professors couldn’t have been more helpful. But she just detested the environment, even though all the kids dressed and looked the way she emulates (unlike her more mainstream high school). She just didn’t like the intensity of the social and academic climate, where she felt one had to be on display at all times.</p>
<p>"where she felt one had to be on display at all times. "</p>
<p>That’s exactly what my son said. </p>
<p>When we visited, we met with the coordinator who was wonderful. But something about the environment just didn’t work for my S. So I understand what you’re saying 100%</p>
<p>Thanks, BTMell, it helps to hear this.</p>
<p>Can someone maybe name the college? </p>
<p>That would be very helpful ;)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But also perhaps too likely to reveal the student’s identity. This thread is about a student’s experience at a SMALL college.</p>