Don't make this mistake with shy student

Parents Forum
121

<p>Thanks, M3D (I just gave you a nickname!) I was about to close the browser and something made me stop and re-read the last few posts. What you said about difficulty with verbal communication jumped out of me. I am certainly not an expert in anything relevant and you may have explored this already, but is it possible she has a learning disability which could be part of the issue? The same for possible physical issues.</p>

<p>My DD was diagnosed with ‘soft’ bipolar disorder (bipolar II) when she was 8. I insisted on a full physical exam, including endocrine testing, before considering medication. It turned out she had a fairly significant thyroid deficiency (by conventional standards-some believe that the ‘recommended’ levels are still to low, but this wasn’t one of those cases). It wasn’t a magic cure for everything, but bringing her thyroid back to normal helped her significantly, and she is no longer considered bipolar.</p>

<p>This episode happened at a major and very well-regarded medical center with psychiatrists I thought were truly excellent in many ways, despite the slip-up. Doctors are only human and they just hadn’t considered the fact that the problem might have a physical basis. </p>

<p>Another of my children was not talking at all age age two (he hadn’t taken a bottle either, which we thought was unconnected but turned out to be a clue). He also seemed to be not quite as strong and also slower than other children his age - not a lot, but enough to note. He was eventually diagnosed with dyspraxia and after several years of speech and physical therapy, is doing great.</p>

<p>But had he not been diagnosed, we may have thought he just didn’t want to talk or didn’t like physical activity (he avoided climbing up slides and running because it was difficult and tiring). And because his delays were relatively subtle - after all, some kids just learn to speak late, or don’t like sports - we may never have realized it. </p>

<p>You may have fully explored these areas, but I did want to bring it up in case you hadn’t.</p>

122

<p>DBG (another nickname!), you bring up some interesting points.I believe there is some sort of physical involvement with my daughter’s self-consciousness – probably sensory intergration dysfunction, but, despite my having her tested in third grade, this has never been diagnosed. She was the unusual baby and toddler who didn’t like to swing. She screamed hysterically at vacuum cleaner sounds. I had to hire a personal trainer to get her to ride a bike at age 10. She learned to swim but still can’t jump into a pool (let alone dive). She got her drivers liscence but has never driven since, and, since she seems either overly reactive to motion, or non-reactive, I think it’s better for her to stick to public transportation – hence the focus on nearby NYC schools. She has always had about 4 foods she’s willing to eat – all without any seasoning or garnishment. She is about as unathletic as one can be without being officially physically handicapped. Yet, she presents as dainty and graceful – moving very cautiously like a timid deer.</p>

<p>I don’t know about a learning disability: doesn’t there have to be a disparity between IQ and academic performance? Her grades and standarized test scores, including the SATs, are very much in line with her IQ.</p>

<p>I believe her psychiatrist did have her tested for thyroid issues before prescribing Wellbutrin and Abilify for bipolar 2. I know she had blood tests, which was another terrible trauma, as she is hyper sensitive to pain (yet went through a period of self-injury). I will ask her doctor about those tests. Thank you for the thoughtful suggestions!</p>

123

<p>That does sound like a possible sensory disorder - perhaps she should be evaluated again? (Note: I have no formal training in OT or LD issues, anything I say is just an observation or an idea).</p>

<p>I’m not sure what the criteria is for learning disability testing. I was thinking of a couple of LD students I know who are very quiet in groups but do well one-on-one and had good grades until around age 18, when they began having difficulty with the harder materials. But it doesn’t sound like your daughter is having any difficulty academically.</p>

<p>Again - everything I say is just an idea with only my own experience as a basis. I’m putting things out b/c it seems like your daughter really is/has been suffering, and I feel that if I have any ideas which might be helpful, I should let you know.</p>

<p>The unathleticism and quietness do make me think of what my son might be like had he not been diagnosed and if we hadn’t embarked on a six-year program of physical therapy, speech therapy, and daily exercise. He had already beginning to avoid more active activities, because he wasn’t good at them and they made him more tired than other kids. And before his speech took off he wasn’t as social as most other children, because he was difficult to understand and three-year olds aren’t known for their patience.</p>

<p>Now he is fairly athletic - not a star but holds his own and was on the junior varsity baseball team in 9th grade, which is unusual. And he has very good social skills, many friends, and is not afraid to speak up. (He also has lots of faults, like all of us, in no way am I claiming he’s perfect!).</p>

<p>Of course I’m not trying to say that the goal is to change your daughter into a talkative athlete - she’s fine the way she is. But it’s also possible (again the disclaimer about this just being an idea) that her dislike of verbal communication and physical activity is a ‘holdover’ from a childhood where speech and gross motor planning difficult for her, she shied away from them, and still shies away even though she can now speak and move with ease. Even though there’s nothing wrong with being quiet and reserved - I and two of my older children are - but it sounds like it’s somewhat of a problem for her, and that is problematic.</p>

<p>Again I’m thinking of what my son might be like if a friend who is a speech therapist hadn’t intervened and very strongly insisted I have him evaluated (our pediatrician was unconcerned about the late speech). It’s also fortunate that our state had a very good Early Intervention program that evaluated him for free and provided therapy at a small charge. I don’t think we would have been inclined to spend several thousand dollars to have him evaluated just because he was late to speak. </p>

<p>Well, that’s it for my ideas. Have a good night and I truly hope that the tide will turn for your child and you. I think it will.</p>

124

<p>The difficult thing with my daughter, verbally, is that she has very eloquent speech – kind of Victorian and out of step with her peers in her formal vocabulary and articulation – and has had an unusually extensive spoken vocabulary every step of the way from age 6-9 months, but she will not initiate conversation or cultivate a verbal back and forth with others due to her shyness, social phobia and self-consciousness. Her language skills are really exceptional – took both Honors Spanish and Latin in high school, and then taught herself German and Russian – but she doesn’t like to speak out loud in general, unless at home with immediate family. Anyway, it is very frustrating!! It is inspiring to hear how your son was able to surmount his challenges; I hope to report an equally good follow up some day!</p>

125

<p>Yeah I think you’re right, just let them be who they are.</p>

126

<p>I don’t think you get my point about college not being a great fit for some kids, or at least, many colleges not being the right fit for some kids.
She can learn writing on her own, attend workshops and conferences even online only, publish, publish, publish, take a few college courses at her own pace if and when she wants to. If you can afford it, or she can get a job so she can, why not try that route?</p>

<p>I know Drew and FDU, and the word “cerebral” does not come to mind.</p>

<p>Is she involved with Mensa or other groups? How about a writer’s guild? Or even a school in England or Australia, where her speech might be more in step and societal mores tend to be a bit quieter than the US (Canada too)?</p>

<p>If you teach, you see kids who are smart but have a tough time with college. And you most likely see as I do, that older kids, 22 or older as freshman, 25 as seniors, tend to be more focused and get the job done. Maybe she needs a different experience for a few years.</p>

<p>Another reason I spoke about college possibly not being for her, or not at this time, or not most colleges, is that I had a close friend who had perfect SAT scores, strong stats up the wazoo, known as the “smartest kid” even though two others in his grade got perfect SAT scores too. Went to Princeton, ended up having to be committed for several months. Changed to Cook College (agricultural school at Rutgers) and did well after that. He was very shy and very sweet, but apparently that did not work out not only with fellow students at Princeton, but professors too.</p>

<p>I take offense with another poster saying talking to professors is bullcrap and brownie points. I am 100% against teacher’s pets, not being one myself, and the reason to talk to your professor is to get some kind of insight into what they are thinking and feel freer to talk to them if you are having trouble in a subject. Sometimes I would only talk to the professor once or twice, other times especially in major courses, every student was expected to group around the professor and not only talk to him yourself, but listen to him talk to other student’s about homework or other non-confidential issues.</p>

<p>dumbitdownjr has it right - let them be who they are. The most important part of that is not to set a timetable, and force college right after hs and work right after college. Let them find their own way, unless you seriously don’t have the funds for it.</p>

127

<p>rhandco: I do understand what you mean by an alternate route to the traditional college path, and, yes, we could afford that. In fact, I am not entirely sure where taking courses part time as a visiting student at one of the schools in NYC will lead, but it may be in a variety of directions.Ultimately, she (and we) wants a degree and she’s going to need one, because even published poets have very lean years during which they have to work at something else.</p>

<p>I always found one on one relationships with professors (at schools where it wasn’t a requirement but a luxury) to be a very rich experience, but that was one of the major things she didn’t like at Sarah Lawrence: to have to share her personal thoughts about a topic with someone who would “judge” her. Whether that is immaturity, a personality type or a pathology is yet to be determined, but right now, a school that has that frequent, regular contact as the bedrock of their curriculum simply isn’t for her.</p>

<p>I very much want my daughter to be who she is, as long as that means being as productive and satisfied as possible using her natural gifts.</p>