Don't understand this attitude

Parent Cafe
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<p>My daughter started showing signs of this in high school but now that she is solidly in college it’s getting even worse: an ungrateful attitude. I think some people call it a sense of entitlement.</p>

<p>I have never had a lot of money. We have endured difficult financial times over the years. We have lived comfortably most of the time but with few luxuries.</p>

<p>Our family has made huge–HUGE–sacrifices to pay for her college education and some extra things to make her college experience even more interesting. But there is never a word of thanks or a sign of gratitude for what we have done or are doing.</p>

<p>She did work last year and paid for a few things on her own. We appreciated that and told her so. But we don’t get that acknowledgment in return.</p>

<p>She didn’t used to be this way. I don’t know what happened but I want to try and fix it if I can. Her attitude is not only ungrateful, it is hostile at times. We stay out of her way, don’t ask questions, or interfere in her college life at all. I am there when she needs something and I wait for her to ask me if she needs help.</p>

<p>I honestly don’t understand what is going on and am considering asking her to see a counselor. Or maybe I should see one myself. I must be doing something wrong here. At times I get so down about it that I feel like I made a big mistake sending her to college without her incurring debt. It seemed like the right thing to do as a parent but now I am not so sure. It might have been better for her to go to a community college and then to a public school that she could have paid for on her own.</p>

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<p>I found myself be a lot more “it’s about me” kinda of attitude last year at school. I was never that way in high school. I’m thinking part of it is the environment now-- college is all about the individual it seems.</p>

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<p>Sorry you are having to deal with this. Our oldest kid heads to college this fall, so we do not have any experience with this yet from the perspective of a parent. But I do remember “young and dumb” years of my own, when I made lots of self-centered assumptions about my place in the universe.</p>

<p>While I can’t give you any advice, I can sympathize with your feelings and voice the optimistic hope that this child (like many children before her) will eventually realize and appreciate the sacrifices her parents have made for her – and make those same sacrifices for her own children.</p>

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<p>Probably true that once they head off and their days are mostly concerned with their own needs, that once they come home it’s hard to see beyond their own needs. But if they are staying in the family house, they need to act and be responsible like anyone else in the family. It’s not too late to make some new rules about school $$ obligations that she needs to be responsible for. </p>

<p>Personally, I am totally in favor of students being responsible for a portion of their schooling $$ even if you ARE able to swing it alone.</p>

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<p>Have you ever told her that it would mean a lot to you if she’d express some appreciation for the things you’re doing to support her college education?</p>

<p>" At times I get so down about it that I feel like I made a big mistake sending her to college without her incurring debt. "</p>

<p>I think that most students appreciate college much more when they have some financial responsibilities toward their education such as taking out some loans and working during the summer and possibly during the school year. I think they also appreciate more the sacrifices that their parents have been making to support them.</p>

<p>I worked and took out loans in college, and doing those things did help me appreciate more the opportunity to get an education, and the support I was getting from my family.</p>

<p>Too often, I think that when students are expected to do nothing to financially support their educations, they view college as an entitlement and as a time for them to have lots of fun while having no responsibility. That’s not the way life works. IMO people old enough to go to college need to also have some adult responsibilities such as having to work or have loans so they realize that childhood is over, and so they start learning the kind of things that will help them support themselves as adults. </p>

<p>Working while attending college is far easier than responsibilities that, for instance, parents have. Working fulltime while also raising kids, helping out with one’s own parents, taking care of one’s home, and volunteering with one’s kids’ ECs and schools is a great deal of work, yet this is what parents are expected to do in our society. It baffles me how those same parents think their high school and college age offspring will be overburdened if they have to work during the summer or school year and/or take out loans to help pay for their education.</p>

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<p>Maybe the daughter is under a lot of stress?</p>

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<p>Cookie, you have my sympathy. My D has her own self-centered moments … not in terms of money, but there are other ways it shows itself (like leaving dirty dishes in the family room for someone else to pick up). It is frustrating. As parents, we always wonder what we did wrong … but sometimes, it’s not us … it’s them. Did your D attend a school with lots of kids who are well off? That can be frustating for a young person … she might need to work through that feeling of wishing you would give her more, like other parents she sees. Or she could just be selfish because she is still a teenager. You just need to stick to your guns about money & she’ll probably get over the attitude soon. Try to remember that you are not alone … most of us have to deal with ungrateful kids in some form or another from time to time.</p>

<p>I am with abasket … we had D take out a small Stafford loan to make sure she felt invested in her own education. That is a decision each family makes for itself, though.</p>

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<p>You are describing one of my worst nightmares.</p>

<p>My oldest DD shows signs of this attitude in HS as well. She definitely has “champagne taste on a beer budget” (which of course we don’t indulge) and acts at times like I owe HER something for being such a tremendous addition to my life. Let me adjust my hemline here while I bow down to the princess.</p>

<p>Actually, I can pinpoint the exact moment when she started being like this, she wasn’t like this as a little kid. My parents took her on a two week trip to Seattle when she was 8 and let her have fruit smoothies from Baskin Robbins for breakfast everyday. She hasn’t been the same since. (Seriously, I’m not kidding.)</p>

<p>It never occured to me it could actually get worse when she left for college. I always thought it was something she would grow out of.</p>

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<p>Wait until she has to start making things work on a small-but-steady paycheck at her first real job. It’s a big wake-up call to really realize how difficult it is to make $35K, and then, to realize how difficult it must be to plunk that much down on a year’s worth of your kid’s education!! She’ll appreciate it later…</p>

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<p>Many of us have done too good of a job in raising our kids so that they have had most of what they need and want. I know that was a main goal of ours, because both H and I did not have those luxuries growing up as our home life was filled with issues that prevented this. We wanted our home life for our children to be a sanctuary, a safe place, and to provide all we could for them. We did not want them to have to worry about money and other things, but to “reach for the stars”. We made education a top priority. So what did we get?</p>

<p>Well, some pretty good kids in many ways. But they do take what we gave them as granted. That really is the way it is with kids. I guess when I grew up, I took certain things for granted too, but not as many since they were not as sure as my kids had it. </p>

<p>It’s hard to cry"poor", and “we can’t afford it” when you are living a pretty good life. It’s hard for the kids to understand the choices you have made and what you have given up to give them what you have. They only see what they have. We bought a nice house in a nice area, sent them to good schools. They take that all for granted. The way we stressed that they would go to college and the high priority education has in household has made them feel that their college is a top priority. Yeah, I created my monsters. It’s taking some hard living for the older ones to get it. Because, you see, when they leave this house, and school, they are no longer upper middle class, or even middle class on their own incomes, but pretty danged poor. If they don’t budget, they bounce checks, and they can’t eat if they have no money in their accounts. Things don’t magically replenish themselves as they had all of their lives. And Mom here is hurting too, but they have to learn. </p>

<p>College is not a good learning ground for this because there are too many students whose lifestyles are so well subsidized there that our kids can get the feeling that they too are entitled. They are at college too, so they should get what everyone gets. The meal plan is paid, board is paid, and there is spending money. They did not spend that much in college anyways, so they never felt the squeeze. A bit different when you have to pay for everything yourself. </p>

<p>I think the kids will grow out of it. But there will be growing pains involved, and yes, I blame myself for their delusions. Things are a bit different with the younger ones as we have had some tougher times. Not that I wish them on anyone, but it does bring it home to the kids when they see the dangers out there, that we are not the sanctuary of all sanctuaries and that it takes real work to keep a home going.</p>

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<p>Kids feel a sense of entitlement. They want things. It’s natural. My D did. I did. But applying to college helped this situation. She couldn’t go to her choice because the FA wasn’t as good.l In retrospect, the school where she is currently is a much better fit for her. And she is thrilled with it. But a college trip to the DR to work with the poor there helped this feeling of entitlement. She got a fellowship last summer, stayed at school an extra couple weeks and worked, cleaning rooms, etc., in order to pay for her Study Abroad. (Her idea, not mine - she knew if she was going to be able to travel while there, she would have to come up with the money.) She lives frugally, cooking and not eating out, etc. And I am lucky because she now thanks me for not having loans to pay, and even suggests she stay overnight in the airport in order to save $100 on airfare. These last 2 years of college have truly matured her and made her thankful for what she has. The first year in college wasn’t quite so uplifting. What helped was D wanting something so badly and knowing I couldn’t afford it, that she had to find a way. Is there anything like that for your child? How about getting her to volunteer with people who are less fortunate? And although for her not paying anything for college has turned out to be a good thing, paying for her travels has been an even better thing.</p>

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<p>I think part of the problem is a youngster cannot see what a parent didn’t get. Parent might have gotten a new car, but not a new Cadillac. Maybe had some vacations, but didn’t make many trips to Europe. A couple of simple examples there to demonstrate that a parent may not have had it so rough that “dumpster diving” was considered a family outing, but a parent without the debt of a child could have had more and better for themselves. Thats what I mean about the things a youngster doesn’t see. Speaking here of course only about the financial aspect; not addressing the joys of parenting. </p>

<p>My wife feels the common “its all for me” attitude that many just on the verge of really being adults have(I did, my son did) is all a part of God’s plan. It is her belief that this difficult phase is His way of making it much easier to let them go from the nest to become their own adult person.
I took a more secular approach with my son when he was nearly 18. We had a calm, rational discussion and I made it very clear at 18 he could make many of his own choices legally, for the first time. I then explained wife and I would soon have the same freedoms. After 18, legally we no longer had to fix his dinner, we no longer had to have food available; we no longer had to provide clothes, a bed, toothpaste, and on and on. We made it clear we still wanted to provide those things, and more, but that for the first time while he had new legal freedoms so did we. We explained to him that while he, at 18, could legally choose his behaviors he could no longer dictate ours. At 18 he has the right to make his choices; but so do we. Discussion much like the “live in our house, live by our rules” talk, except we didn’t use those words and tried to discuss all aspects calmly- not to have a shouting match. He hadn’t thought of it from that perspective before. Let’s face it, like all kids growing up, no matter what their behavior we still provided his support in its entirity. That was the way it had always been. A parent doen’t throw a child out on his own at 9 yrs old if he steals money from Mom’s purse(just an example). The parent tries to punish the act then teach the proper respect and behavior etc. He understood that from 18 on any support, advice, money, etc., we gave him was a gift not a legal obligation. He was now in the position to choose behavior that we would want to continue our giving, or choose to support himself and make the rules in his own home. Want to come home at any hour? in any condition? with any overnight guest? play music loud at any hour? He is allowed to do any of that if he wants, in his own place. He agrees I’m a self-supporting adult, and sees I can’t do that. I have wife, family, job obligations that must come first. He is a logical thinking kind of person and this talk really “hit home” about entitlement. As an adult, if I choose to continue working at my place of employment my boss has rules I am expected to follow. If I think his rules unfair or too restrictive, I have the option of staying or seeking alternative employment. Son has essentially the same options. We made it very clear what we wanted to give to him, and the opportunities we hoped we could help to open; and still do, by the way, but he now sees it is a matter of our choice not obligation. When he comes home from college now, he asks if there’s anything he can help us with. I am very pleased that he has chosen the easiest path that best fits his desire for a happy, fulfilling, life and career, and like any parent I hope he achieves it.
I may have rambled a bit, but my intent was to show that after our talk, he really had a clear understanding of how entitlement, privileges, and responsibilities change as a person changes from child to adult.</p>

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<p>I have a similar situation with my daughter, as I was just thinking last night. I think it may be because they are in such new territory (I guess it takes a while for it not to be so new any longer) that they need to look at every footstep they take, so they don’t fall into the river. They are hyper-self-aware, so that they can fend for themselves. I am hoping that this will ease and the tunnel vision will expand as more time goes by. In the meantime, when the occasional wonderful things happen, I appreciate them. My D made dinner for me the other night! It was so great. Also, she surprised me by coming to a little concert that I was singing in with my chorus last week. So it’s there, it just has to surface again.</p>

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<p>The minister at our church has said several times that in raising children parents sometimes have to say “no” when there is no particularly good reason other than to teach them that the answer can’t always be “yes.”</p>

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<p>My 14-year old daughter asked me what she should do if she were to win $100 million.</p>

<p>I told her that, one thing was for sure, she’d have to pay for college.</p>

<p>She was incensed, told me that that was something parents pay for!</p>

<p>It seems for her, paying for college is like paying for food and a roof over her head.</p>

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<p>Mamadrama: your post really gave me a good laugh…</p>

<p>My memory is extremely clear on this…I remember very well being in college in the 70’s and thinking that taking care of myself was my top priority; it wasn’t that I was “ungrateful”, but rather I was in emotional and intellectual survival mode…When my father passed away suddenly my sophomore year, this mission became even more important… I had to figure out how to pay for not only tuition, but also living expenses…</p>

<p>What I’m trying to express is that the 18-22 year old brain is generally very self-absorbed…I think that it is the rare kid who is “grateful” for what their parents do for them in terms of both financial and emotional support…If you have a kid like that, lucky for you…but I don’t think that it’s the norm…</p>

<p>I do totally agree that having college kids take on a small amount of financial responsibility is a good idea…</p>

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<p>Thank you for all the wonderful responses so far. I really appreciate everything you have said.</p>

<p>I do think that the comments about the age are probably right, that it’s normal at this age to be self absorbed!</p>

<p>She will be pursuing a PhD and will have to pay for that herself. We have made it clear that we do not have the means to help. So perhaps reality will set in pretty soon …</p>

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<p>Cookie-
My favorite mantra is “you can’t change her-- you can change how you respond to her”. It may be a little late to emphasize the “please” and “thank you” manners, but you can address the hostile tone and make her delay gratification when she feels entitled to something. Is she this way about everything or just about her college expenses? Is she expected to pay for , or contribute to other expenses (ie transportation, clothes, electronics or other non-necessities). Does she have acces to a car? Is she paying for gas, insurance, etc? It may be easier to address these smaller expences and the reality of what you can/cannot afford, and let your princess figure out how she plans to pay for them :slight_smile: Good luck! And yes-- I am a big supporter of therapy so you feel good about yourself and the decisions you make.</p>

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<p>Forgot to mention-- Mamadrama-- LOVE your screenname!</p>

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<p>jym626: I see what you are saying here. She is accustomed to “going without,” because we never had the financial ability to give her a lot of things. For example, she has never had a car (the only one of her friends who didn’t have one in high school). </p>

<p>I think it may be a phase, as some of you have said here. But it is still a bit hurtful at times. I try to remember that she needs to focus on doing well in school. Since she is going to apply to high-level graduate schools, how she does now will greatly impact her future. So maybe I need to be a bit more forgiving than I have been.</p>