<p>I would talk to a lawyer right away. I wouldn’t necessarily have the lawyer get involved yet, but I’d want to know exactly what the worst case scenario is. I don’t buy the warning that schools are put on the defensive by lawyers. They are accustomed to dealing with lawyers. They are much less likely to be over reaching when a lawyer is involved.</p>
<p>Ahhh, that clears it up for me. A snitch is ok, if there is an obvious victim, but a snitch is not ok if there is no obvious victim, and not ok if it might keep an innocent person from being wrongly accused.
Got it. Thank you for clarification Kayf.</p>
<p>As to the search, as posted way up on this thread, the college probably had the right to search the whole room due to the roommate’s open use of illegal drugs as per the policy posted. The ID discovered in the course of the search could have a number of valid defenses against criminal charges, and a lawyer should be consulted. It would seem likely that the college may have a punishment for the false ID (which by my reading of the statute posted way back is 100% within the definition of a false ID), but that they are not required to pass this on to the authorities of the state and/or federal government. That they may do so is at the college’s discretion. </p>
<p>If you knowingly break the law, you know that you may get caught, unless you are less than mentally competent. Period. This applies to drinking, fake ID, illegal drug possession and distribution and all the rest. This does not mean that you are not entitled to a vigorous defense - this is the first tenet of criminal defense law - you are entitled to a vigorous defense because you are innocent until proven guilty. Period.</p>
<p>As to the OP’s view of “snitches”, I am in total disagreement. I couldn’t be more “disgusted” by the OP’s attitude. I do not think it is in any way a “kinder” attitude to look the other way if a law has been broken. Without respect for the law, anarchy develops. Many ills in society were perpetuated by looking the other way at injustice. And yes, I know that you think that the punishment of certain crimes is an injustice. If so, fight to change the law, but don’t flaunt it. I do think it is a personal choice to report infractions of the law or not, and that I respect the choice made, either way, even if I would do differently. Law abiding, does not mean perfect. No one is perfect.</p>
<p>As to alcohol use or drug use being victimless - this is not true. Go to the charity ward of a hospital and see the result of a lifetime of drug or alcohol use. The person’s life is ruined, and society must pay the price as well. Additionally, to all the “cooler” posters than I, education as to avoiding drugs or alcohol is a big fat failure. Students die from alcohol poisoning every year, and they all probably thought that it would never happen to them. You don’t believe that marijuana is a gateway drug? That use of other more harmful drugs often follows? Even with a different graphic approach, kids would still want to do it, because it is “cool”.</p>
<p>“OP just a head’s up on transferring; this violation will show up on his transcript. Another tidbit that will be revealed at the hearing in terms of sanctions.”</p>
<p>I wouldn’t worry about this ruining the roommate’s or the OP’s son’s college careers. Reed College is probably going to have an admissions officer on-call all weekend because they might get a couple applicants who apparently have a reliable supplier.</p>
<p>{{{Schmaltz}}}</p>
<p>I haven’t read through every post so my apologies if this has been covered but I wanted to mention that IF the OP decides to retain counsel they might want to explore lawyers from the immediate community that have dealt with the college/university in the past. </p>
<p>A friend’s son, who had never been in trouble before, behaved stupidly while attending a university nearby. Alcohol related with a few added layers because it took place off campus. No property damage. No. Cars. Involved. Things were looking bleak because on paper the offense was one that could result in a dismissal and the school was not taking it lightly. The parents lived across the state and called my husband for advice. He connected the family with a attorney from a smaller local practice that H knew did township oriented work. This included some dealings with the university. My husband is a business lawyer in a large practice and though technically he could have represented the student he firmly believed that the outcome would be better if the family got advice from a lawyer with a very local practice.</p>
<p>Initially the school was sending negative signals even though it was a first offense and the student was a campus leader. The student was shamefaced and apologetic. He wanted to handle the whole thing himself. The parents were angry at their kid and the position that he put himself in but they were also upset that the university was not more forthcoming about how the process worked and how decisions would be made. </p>
<p>My husband’s fear was that the student would be used to set an example because of ongoing student behavior issues that the university had with the surrounding neighborhood. In the end, the student ended up with a ton of community service and no mark on his record which to my mind, knowing the details, was an appropriate punishment. My husband believes it served him well to be legally represented.</p>
<p>Amateurs. Say the fake was a novelty id, you will come off unscathed.</p>
<p>Kayf my post was not intended to be nasty but if the OP is telling me that is how the situation should be handled and her S knew of his roommates drug use then why didn’t he do something about it. If he didn’t know about it then maybe his roommate isn’t as good a ‘friend’ as he thought he was. What friend keeps his drugs in their room and potentially get the OP’s S tarred with the same brush.</p>
<p>As for the fake ID - is having one considered the same as using one? It may be that all his friends were getting one and he decided to get one as well. There is no proof that he ever used it or even intended to use it.</p>
<p>For the record unless it said in huge bold lettering in the paperwork at the beginning of term that there was zero tolerance for drugs and alcohol and the punishment would be instant loss of scholarships then I think the RM has been harshly treated and to possibly receive a criminal record for having a false ID is also a very harsh life lesson. If it was clear that this would be the punishment and they still took the same actions then I suspect the RM will have cause to regret this for the rest of his life.</p>
<p>Or say that down at the homeless shelter they allowed people his real age to volunteer for only 40 hours per week.</p>
<p>My D has two roommates in her suite who smoke pot every day. They “only” smoke in one of the girls’ rooms (the single) or in the bathroom (since it has a fan) and not in the other common areas. Still, the whole suite always smells of pot and it drifts into D’s room. She has asthma occasionally which this doesn’t help!</p>
<p>She hates it and has asked them to stop but they haven’t. Other problems, with messes left around and food eaten, are also caused by their pot smoking. She’s complained about it to the RA but unless she calls while they are actually smoking, and they are caught in the act, the rooms will not be searched. She’s looked for other housing, but none is available (this school ran out of housing during the recent lottery for next year).</p>
<p>She hasn’t and won’t snitch but I wouldn’t consider it a bad thing if she did. The complications would be bad for her roommates but they would be entirely of their own making. It’s too bad that there is no good middle ground in this sort of case. Something akin to binding arbitration rather than divorce court. Why should the non pot smoking roommate have to find other housing and move all their things out? Why is the burden put on kids to either snitch or suffer in silence?</p>
<p>Come on Parents, this is not a case of self preservation or “thou shall not inconvenience or put me at risk”. WouldaCouldaShoulda!!!</p>
<p>This is a family in crisis NOW, TODAY! Please park your 20-20 hindsight at the instant moment! Comment after resolution as you see fit. But now, support is required of people of good will. Thanks</p>
<p>Coolrunning, As the OP’s son’s roommate might say, “wooooooah, chill out, dude.”</p>
<p>The story greenwitch relates is why there are victims of these so-called victimless crimes. That is a totally intolerable situation. Someone’s health is less important than someone’s high? WHat kind of crazy thinking is that. </p>
<p>Many, many kids have reasons to not be living with roommates who are flaunting laws. SOme of the reasons so far mentioned on this thread included losing scholarships, damaging future careers, damaging immigration status, and incurring health problems. Real victim-less crimes here, not. </p>
<p>In terms of what the OP should do, I concur with some of the others in advocating to getting in touch with a local lawyer and consulting with him/her. </p>
<p>With regards to the OP son’s RM, while expelling is very serious and I am not sure I would go that far, I do think anyone smoking pot in open in a non marijuana friendly university is not acting in a rational manner and may need some intervention.</p>
<p>great point greenwitch… i’ve been reading along and trying to decide on what i think my son should do if faced with a similar situation. He is fully aware of the school’s policy and in fact did read the handbook, he is also on the residential life committee. he has a great RM and they both have full scholarships… but if he had a roommate that was putting him in a position that could risk his scholarship or have legal implications…i would have a really hard time congratulating him for not snitching while trying to figure out where he would be going to school, and how not snitching was worth 80+K. (that may seem selfish but its a fact of life)
and for those who say snitching is “worse” than some acts they dont happen to think should be punished in the way they are…how do you teach your kids where the line is drawn (serious question)…
ie:
rm has beer in room
rm has pot in room
rm has heroin in room
rm has threatened suicide
rm cutting self
rm has gun in room
rm driving drunk
rm has stolen property in room</p>
<p>maybe the stigma attached to snitching is why some terrible things happen in schools, even middle or high schools, like bullying or guns/shooting. “Dont want to be a snitch”</p>
<p>Shmaltz, LOL at the Reed college reference, thanks for cheering me up, and you too Anothermom, because I really loved your insinuation about me being an anarchist…</p>
<p>Anyway, the plot thickens…</p>
<p>RM was NOT alone when he was busted, 2 other boys were with him. One is gone - expelled, this was his second infraction and they found syringes in his room. RM and the other boy have been suspended for the semester, they found seeds in the other kids room. No news of any fake ID’s but whoever said that if my S had it in his wallet they wouldn’t have found it was right - they didn’t search HIM. Hope this info helps.</p>
<p>RM is home but word is that he has a chance of retaining his scholarship because of his high GPA in the honors program and it’s a first offense. We’re hoping.</p>
<p>S also spoke to a girl at school whose fake ID was confiscated and she was fined $250 (which was reduced to $100 after she worked some of it off on campus) and did community service.</p>
<p>We won’t call back again and told S to say nothing to anyone but to call if anyone started questioning him or if he got notice to appear at the hearing (s).</p>
<p>good to hear they do have a process that allows for first offenses. hopefully your S will not suffer any serious penalties either! sounds like a good outcome!</p>
<p>Yes, sounds scarey, but fair. Shook him up a little. But that’s more effective than the mom and dad chat will ever be. Now, onto the weekend. :eek:</p>
<p>I always feel sad for young people who suffer consequences, and especially for their families. However, since this forum exists for honest input, I will add mine.</p>
<p>Coleytown
</p>
<p>A principal friend once told me that he could always tell the good parents when a child made a mistake. They are the ones focused exclusively on the misbehavior of their own offspring, rather than projecting anger towards teachers, the school, or a classmate who may have reported the incident. You may think that injecting a “we know our son made a mistake” offers some immunity here, but your overall viewpoint really needs some soul searching. As parents, we do not have the luxury of teaching our children relative morals. Will they still make mistakes no matter what we teach them? Definitely. There are no perfect kids, and no perfect parents. Still, there is a bar, and as parents we need to meet it.</p>
<p>
These should be mitigating factors for punishment, but criminals at all ages are at some point first time offenders. Many criminals had good grades, especially white collar ones.</p>
<p>There is no better learning experience than a natural consequence. Roommate may today lose a scholarship, yet with his brains he will still find a way back to a good career path. If he continued his blatant disregard for the rules into full-fledged adulthood, say at the future equivalent of Enron, his consequence might be much worse (and might hit just when there are little children depending on him). Losing a scholarship is NOTHING compared to worse case scenarios if roommate fails to learn that rules apply to him as well. </p>
<p>Coleytown
</p>
<p>Csfmap
</p>
<p>My gut is telling me that there may be more to this story (maybe). You would be surprised at what goes on behind the scenes before activity is taken against someone. You have no idea what information may have been gathered before the roommate was approached, smoking marijuana in public on a college campus. There is often a lot of activity and research, the contents of which are never necessarily revealed, well in advance. One thing is for sure. You have no guarantee that what your son told you is the entire story. </p>
<p>You mind being blown is, BTW, nothing unusual. Every single person in jail had their mind blown, every time they got caught. Every parent of every person in jail had their mind blown when it happened as well. Sheesh, every time a kid gets suspended or expelled, all the parties involved have their minds blown. And by the way, most prisoners say they are innocent, and a high percentage of the incarcerated have a problem with the rules that got them there. This is not a way of thinking that we want to spread to our young adult children.</p>
<p>Do I think that you, your son’s roommate, or your son are bad people or that anyone deserves prison terms? Of course not! Yet the way that we handle situations like this is very important, and we still need to understand the big picture.</p>
<p>Coley, I am so happy this is moving as best can be hoped for.</p>
<p>Looking good, Coleytown! Keep the faith!!!</p>