<p>I hope my kids DON"T meet the person that they end up marrying in college. Anyone I know who did that is divorced now. When I think of the chuckleheads I was attracted to in college…eek! Maybe we’re just late bloomers…but I hope my kids will date around awhile in their 20’s before making such a huge decision.</p>
<p>I’m with you, DKE. </p>
<p>I met TheMom in my late 20’s. By that time we’d both evolved quite a bit beyond our undergrad personalities though I think I was up to “barely tolerable.” Actually, TheMom’s initial characterization to a former roommate was “I met this guy in my writing class who asked me out but he’s something of a geek.”</p>
<p>By that time we both had some idea of what we wanted and, more importantly in many ways, what we didn’t want and weren’t willing to put up with…definition by exclusion is useful tool. (By that time, neither of use would have married smokers…I wouldn’t even have dated one and TheMom’s father had recently died of lung cancer. TheMom wasn’t going to invest in a relationship with anyone who could not respect her Catholicism…her previous serious b/f had been Jewish and came to the point where he wanted her to convert. Etc.)</p>
<p>H and I went to different colleges, but when we met in our mid-30’s realised that we’d frequented the same bar back then. We both still laugh about it, because neither one of us would have had the least interest in the other back then. He wore WALLABEES and I only dated the Gucci- no sox clad type. ha!</p>
<p>The business of connecting and not connecting I find interesting. I don’t wonder at the divorce rate so much as wonder how people manage to find each other in the first place. I went up several notches on TheMom’s radar screen when I knew who Mike Jitlov was and when, walking down a deserted UCLA hallway one night, spontaneously launched into a chorus of “God Save King Pendragon.” Go figure.</p>
<p>As for TheMom, there was the basic attraction that she’d go out with me and didn’t care what kind of car I drove or didn’t particularly mind how much money I had or didn’t have. </p>
<p>We both had the gratifying experience of not having to explain things to each other and having a capacity for indulging each other’s silliness.</p>
<h2>TheDad: “we both had some idea of what we wanted and, more importantly in many ways, what we didn’t want and weren’t willing to put up with…definition by exclusion is useful tool.”</h2>
<p>This is sooooo important. I made such “lists” when I was single and have passed this advice on to single friends and to my boys. I think it really helps avoid divorce… </p>
<p>I have told single friends and my boys to make a list (in writing) of what type of girl/guy they would want to marry. The first list should have what traits they would want in a wife/husband (such as: likes/wants children, good sense of humor, good morals and ethics, good at socializing, good with money, focused, stable, likes travel, likes sports, educated, can apologize and admit fault, - whatever), and (even more specifically!) make a list of what “traits” they could not tolerate in a spouse (such as smoking, excessive drinking, sloppy, vulgar, politically opposite, big religious differences, drug use, crazy/meddling in-laws, etc). </p>
<p>It seems like when we end up with mates who have the “can NOT tolerate traits,” it is because we “settled” and are later quite unhappy (which often leads to divorce.) That is why it is important not to “seriously date” anyone who doesn’t “qualify” according to your own lists - it is too big a risk that you will then feel pressure to overlook your list, fall in love, and settle. Just my opinion…</p>
<p>
Well, don’t you believe in magic? :)</p>
<p>H was not my first boyfriend and I was not his first girlfriend, but I knew within two weeks of dating that he was “The One.” Actually, I had recently broken up with previous BF and was kind of looking forward to dating a bit more – I was only 20 and we were married when I was 21 and H was 24. But when you meet your match, that’s it.</p>
<p>“I don’t wonder at the divorce rate so much as wonder how people manage to find each other in the first place.”</p>
<p>I think that when you “travel in certain circles” that you are more likely to meet people that you will have a greater number of things in common, similar income group, similar “culture”, etc… For instance: if you socialize with your church crowd, your colleagues or some other group of people who share your interests, you are more likely to meet someone who’d make a good match then if you just parachuted out of a plane somewhere over the USA and landed in a community with different values, politics, incomes, etc.</p>
<p>jlauer95, I so agree with you about the lists! I had a mental idea of acceptable and unacceptable traits in a mate, and I didn’t date anyone who didn’t meet the criteria. I was in my early 30’s at that point and didn’t want to waste time with guys who I knew wouldn’t be considered marriage material. It just was practical thinking, I guess and it worked. Even in my 20’s I started to be leery of the handsome (but alcoholic) type of which there were PLENTY in NYC. So charming and debonair but to marry? I don’t think so!</p>
<p>dke—</p>
<p>Yes! It is so easy to be “distracted” by raw sexual attraction (hunky guys or hot chicks) that if we don’t have well-thought-out lists, a person could easily think that “the bod with the face” is “the one”. I also think that many people just end up “settling” with whomever they happen to be with when they think it’s time to get married. That’s why your decision to not date men who were not “marriage material” is great. I knew I didn’t want to marry anyone who had been divorced so I never date any men who had been divorced.</p>
<p>I would also add as a possible trait to someone’s “want” list: someone who comes from a family that treats its members with respect. (If the dad treats the mom badly - or vice versa, it could be a very bad sign that you will not be treated well in the future !)</p>
<p>Snide ethnic jokes were rampant and took the joke teller off the list, too!</p>
<p>I think that thinking hormonally accounts for all the single moms of two-year-olds in pre-school. </p>
<p>Otoh, I think “certain circles” is extremely limiting. About the only thing various elements of my “circle”–it’s really more amoeba shaped–have in common is a bias for higher education but people who were initially encountered in a wide range of circumstances. Indeed, sometimes when I meet someone I know but can’t immediately name I’m frantically trying to remember which context I know them from: business, school, church, ballet, writing, etc. And that illustrates my point…I find interesting people in many different circles and would lead a poorer life if I had been more restrictive. </p>
<p>Moreover, a number of the circles are much broader when one is already married.</p>
<p>As for the “kids” issue, I do remember TheMom and I having a discussion along the lines of “hypothetically…if you were to get married, how many kids would you like to have?” (I asked.) The answer began “Hypothetically…”
We were southbound on the 405 freeway about the “Sunset” exit, me driving my 1992 blue Olds Cutlass.</p>
<p>TheDad, you know that there’s marriage material there when someone starts “hypothetically” talking about kids. H asked me if I wanted them on our second date. I nearly passed out after meeting so many noncommittal men!</p>
<p>I think there’s a LOT to be said for “raw sexual attraction” (which I would call lust). It’s one of the bonds that has sustained my husband and me through rough times!</p>
<p>"I think that thinking hormonally accounts for all the single moms of two-year-olds in pre-school. "</p>
<p>I totally agree. And, frankly, I am a bit saddened to see so many young single (never married) girls who have a child from some “hot guy” who thought she was a “hot chick” for a few nights (until she became pregnant).</p>
<p>and… yes… some circles are too small. I would recommend that people have several circles – work, church, special interests (political groups, sports, hobbies, alumni clubs), and even friends of friends or family, so as to broaden the opportunities to meet people who might make good matches for them.</p>
<p>DKE, I knew exactly what I was doing when I asked “Hypothetically…”</p>
<p>Some courtship conversations are a bit like bridge:</p>
<p>Open: 1 Club = 13 points, at least three clubs</p>
<p>Reponse: 1 Heart, I have at least six points and at least four hearts but you don’t know how many spades I have</p>
<p>Opener: 3 Hearts, I have at least four hearts and something like 15-17 points.</p>
<p>Responder: 4 Clubs, 13+ points, acknowledging Heart fit and showing the Ace of Clubs</p>
<p>Opener: 4 Spades, I got the Ace of Spades but no Ace of Diamonds</p>
<p>Repsonder: 5 Diamonds, don’t worry, I’ve got no worse than the King of Diamonds.</p>
<p>Opener: 6 Hearts, in that case a small slam.</p>
<p>====> a much better than average date.</p>
<p>As opposed to 1 Spade 2 Clubs, pass…this ain’t going very far so enjoy it for what it is.</p>
<p>thedad;</p>
<p>Please translate for us who are bridge illiterate :)</p>
<p>Frankly, I think there is such a pressure not to look like you are looking for a life partner that people end up using some kind of weird code to find things out.</p>
<p>I also didn’t want to marry ANYONE until I had finished being a student & had a career for a while. I am too much of a “cameleon” and will be like those I’m around. I wanted some time to figure out who I was when I was alone, so I wanted & did live alone in a two-bedroom apartment for five years before I became engaged & married my hubby who was the only single male on my volleyball team.
I had satisfying serious relationships while in college and grad school, but always knew how important it was for ME to have time when I wasn’t a student before I decided to “settle down.” We recently celebrated our 20th anniversary.
My S married a man she met while he was completing med school & she was getting her masters. My brother married a woman he met while he was getting his law degree & she was getting her masters. My other brother married a woman he had known from HS but started dating when they were both in college/med school. My younger sister married a man when she had her career & he was completing dental school. We’re all still happily married to our original spouses. </p>
<p>I think it all depends on the individual & ability to tell the difference between hormones & long-term compatability–some folks are more honest with themselves & their partners than others.</p>
<p>JLauer, the point is not understanding the code, it’s understanding that there <em>is</em> a code. It’s a Zen thing. But zat was zen and zis is now.</p>
<p>HIMom, I agree about the notion of knowing yourself as a person first. If I were Emperor, I’d think hard about raising the marriage age to 30 and formalize any hypocrisies about sex outside of marriage.</p>
<p>TheDad, “formalize any hypocrisies about sex outside of marriage?” Like the bridge, we need explanations!</p>
<p>TheDad and others:</p>
<p>I agree completely with the point of waiting until later in life and especially post-college/after-career-start to consider marriage. The fact remains though, whether we parents like it or not, that many of our kids will end up meeting their future spouses while in college. Many will also get married much younger than those of us with the benefit of hindsight would espouse (pun intended).</p>