Duke vs Hopkins vs Williams vs Pomona

College Search & Lists
21

As other posters have said, one can get into an excellent graduate program anywhere in the US from these four schools. That wouldn’t be one of my deciding factors when choosing between them.

One has to be very careful with graduate school placement data, especially PhD production. The success rates of applicants matter much more than the overall numbers – Reed may produce more PhDs per capita than Penn, for example, but that does not mean that any given student from Reed has a better shot at (or is better prepared for) a PhD program than a student from Penn. It simply means that more students at Reed are interested in a career in academia.

As for Duke specifically, students tend to be much more interested in professional degrees (medicine, law, business) than PhD programs, but the students who do apply to PhD programs typically fare quite well.

I don’t know how long ago that was, but that was not at all my experience. It’s not that unusual for Duke students to hit up Franklin Street or a concert at Cat’s Cradle in Carrboro. You also had Carolina students coming over to Duke/Durham for shows at DPAC or parties/concerts on campus like LDOC. There’s a fair amount of social intermixing between the two universities, and the Robertson bus makes it really easy to travel between them.

I took several classes at Carolina and sometimes wore a Duke shirt. The only comment I ever got was someone asking me if I’d lost a bet.

To judge from past posts, OP was (is?) interested in majoring in biology. If that’s the case, it may be useful to compare course offerings at each school.

JHU’s biology department, for example, has a relatively narrow focus on biochemistry and molecular/cellular biology. Duke’s biology department embraces many other subfields in addition to biochemistry and molecular bio – marine biology (with a marine lab on the coast), ecology and environmental biology (with an 8000 acre research forest), primatology/biological anthropology (with a primate center), botany and plant systematics, and so on.

https://biology.duke.edu/undergraduate/major/concentrations

I am less familiar with the biology programs at Williams and Pomona, but it’s my impression that they have relatively well-rounded biology departments.

22

Coloradomamma is exactly right. The medical school admission process is brutal. I see many posts on CC about best school or curriculum for “medical school”, without a real understanding of the intense dedication you need to create a compelling application. If I were an aspiring pre-med student, I would want to understand the pre-health advising at the school as well as the opportunities. And the reason that the medical schools want to see that commitment is because they don’t want to admit someone who doesn’t want to work with people who are ill or who doesn’t have the drive to get through medical school classes and rotations. And when you only admit 3% of the applicants, you can screen out all but the really really powerful applications. Duke does an incredible job on this front. But the students who go on to Harvard, Duke, UCSF, JHU, Baylor medical schools from Duke didn’t just pretty up their resume. They don’t fake it or put down fluff. That won’t fly. They put in tremendous hours on research, clinical work, volunteer work, and leadership activities as well as hard work in the classroom so that the medical schools would have confidence in their candidacy. If you go to the right school, you can have a life, and fun, and complete the other stuff. But it is serious business.

23

Also do not overlook the doctor of osteopathy route, as an alternative. There are many for profit medical schools, and all those graduates do become doctors. In Colorado osteopathic doctors are respected members of all the MD family practices. Smaller states need doctors, and Colorado is a great place to live! So don’t get bogged down on high ranking medical schools, might as well aim in the lower half. U of Utah MD/PhD is arguably excellent and FREE. But you better have every summer jam packed with research work to go that route, and maybe a publication.

Its the organized student who gets into medical school, not really the smartest student.

24

@warblersrule Good to hear that there is more socializing between the schools than back in my day. Maybe my experience was exacerbated by the fact that two of my brothers-in-law swam for UNC so we were in Chapel Hill frequently for sports events. The ribbing at every family gathering is brutal and continues to this day!! :smiley:

25

“Pomona being in small town” Claremont is a small town way too far from major Los Angeles hospitals, for you to learn much about medicine."
excuse me?? @Coloradomama

Have you ever BEEN to Pomona? It is right off a major highway IN Los Angeles County. It it NOT in an isolated location and there are MANY opportunities for research at the numerous hospitals in LA.

26

Sorry, but that is just so wrong. Every academic at a west coast grad school knows that Williams is among the best of the best. And every academic on the east coast feels the same about Pomona.

Neither LAC will help/hinder grad/professional school apps anywhere.

27

@youraveragestudent
"I’ve never visited a LAC campus, but it may be something I want. "
I agree, you really need to visit Pomona.
It is not for everyone.
My neighbor, a prominent MD at Stanford, went to Pomona for UG, the U of Chicago for med school, and says he loved his time in S Cal.

28

I’ve decided I’m going to be visiting Williams and Duke for admitted students days. Although I can’t visit Pomona, I think my interests are better served at Williams and Duke since they are strong in both econ and premed. As of now, I am leaning towards Duke due to the social atmosphere, name recognition, and wider alumni network, but maybe visiting Williams will change that. Thank you, everyone, for the advice!

29

You applied ED for a reason. I wouldn’t overthink this.

“But, an important component of the WSJ rankings is “outcomes” (which includes graduate salaries & student debt). Duke tied for #1 with Harvard & Yale. JHU was at #19, Williams College at #16 & Pomona College at #39. (I suspect that LAC results are due to a high percentage going on to grad school–but that is just my guess.)”

^ Something to consider.

30

If you have the time and resources, I recommend visiting the LACs(albeit they are on opposite side of the country). Ultimately it will come down to your vibes. They are all great schools. Best of luck!

31

Just to confuse you, Pomona is also excellent in premed — which really isn’t a major – and econ. (Claremont-McKenna is a leader in Econ & Poli Sci, so plenty of Econ courses available on campus.)

32

@manyloyalties

“I never understood the don’t like Duke culture theme here, because I see it as a friendly place, with highly accesible professors, a great campus, and a positive culture.”

I’ve seen posters on CC describe Duke as having a “traditional Old South vibe.” Nothing could be further from the truth. Maybe some assume they know the culture because Duke is located in North Carolina.

33

My Pomona kid interviewed at Duke for med school. While eventually deciding to go to a different med school, my kid said everybody at Duke was extremely friendly, and sensed that the undergrad vibe was very similar to my kid’s experience at the 5Cs - sort of a southern hospitality with a SoCal academic chill. (Sounds like OP already nixed Pomona, so I won’t proselytize about its premed process here - but will mention for others that econ is Pomona’s most popular major).

34

Agree that Duke has a wider alumni network (and the impact of having a great basketball team/sports program to keep them together cannot be underestimated), but the Williams alumni network could very well be the strongest in the world. After all, the concept of an alumni society was created at Williams around 1821 when the current Williams president, Zephaniah Swift Moore, defected to create Amherst college with about half of Williams’ student body. After that event, Williams alumni came together to create the very first alumni association. More info here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=VmsldNKPSkc

In other words, Williams grads help and hire other Williams grads. The alumni network is very strong.

35

This is definitely a difficult and multi-layered decision. Based on your interests and what you care about, I’d say:
For investment banking Duke~Williams > Pomona~Hopkins.
General prestige, just by nature of the size of Duke and Johns Hopkins and their bigger sports, will probably be Duke>Hopkins>>Williams>Pomona (probably on the West Coast Pomona goes up, but Williams has been around for longer). Duke and Johns Hopkins have truly global names, while that isn’t fully there for Williams and Pomona since they are just much much smaller without the same graduate programs.
For prestige among academics, probably Williams>Duke~Pomona~Hopkins (although Duke had 3 Rhodes Scholars and Hopkins had 1 this year, while Pomona and Williams didn’t produce any)
For medical opportunities, Hopkins~Duke>Williams~Pomona as a result of Hopkins and Duke having a medical school and hospital on campus, although the undergraduate research at all 4 are great.
For flexibility to explore and try out different intellectual pursuits, Williams~Pomona~Duke>Hopkins
For alumni network loyalty, probably Williams>Pomona~Duke>>Hopkins (Hopkins does not have a great alumni network for giving back and going to bat for each other compared to the other three).
For alumni network impact and reach, as a result of size probably Duke>Hopkins>Williams>Pomona.
For undergraduate attention and focus, Williams~Pomona>Duke~Hopkins
For quality of life and student happiness, Pomona>Duke>Williams>>Hopkins
For school spirit, Duke>>Pomona>Williams>Hopkins
For weather and nature offerings, Duke~Pomona>>Hopkins~Williams

Given these subjective things, it looks like it would be Duke>Pomona~Williams>Hopkins, and I think more specifically it is close between Duke Pomona and Williams so Hopkins can probably be ruled out. Good luck though! Definitely visit and see what feels right, some of these things like quality of life can be different for every individual based on fit!

36

so @youraveragestudent what have you decided?