Hey everyone! I’m stuck in a little bit of a predicament between these schools. I’m leaning more towards Duke, but I would appreciate some advice and pros for the LACs. First, my main worry is the prestige and the name recognition that smaller LACs may have with employers or the general population. I do value the more personal interactions between professors at a smaller school, but what would I not get at a larger university like Duke that I would get at Williams or Pomona? Thank you!
"what would I not get at a larger university like Duke that I would get at Williams or Pomona?
Lots more personal attention and interactions with professors.The Profs at both colleges are there for UG students, and do not have grad students to teach and support , and do not have to do the levels of research that University professors are expected to do.
And both LAC’s are just as if not MORE prestigious than Duke or Hopkins, and Pomona and Williams are among the very top colleges in the country.
And employers know both of them very well.
This Forbes article should give you a fair idea as to the quality of a LAC such as Williams: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliesportelli/2017/04/26/10-expensive-colleges-worth-every-penny-2017/.
pomona
Thank you for the responses! Is it easier to get into medical school or work in I-B at a LAC such as Williams or Pomona rather than a big university like Duke?
Pomona for med school.
Williams and Duke for IB.
If I’m not sure what I want to do, would Duke be the best option since it is also good for premed?
Did your financial aid at any of these colleges differ? If applicable? Also if you are able to I would advise visiting each I know duke has ‘Blue Devil Days’ and would assume the others have an admitted student day as well. This is probably your best bet for figuring out where you will fit the best.
My off the cuff ranking was directional only.
Too many factors when they are all so seriously great.
Both fields you mention are equally accessible from all three schools.
It’s really a matter of where you would like to spend the next four years. They are all the world’s best ice cream shops. Which flavor and extras are best is totally up to you.
West coast? East coast? Southern charm? Connections to other schools or standalone. East coast reputation and connections?
Bigger school and lots of people. Big basketball games and school spirit galore. Acces to a medical school or business school? Research internships etc.
You can always try the tee shirt trick. Wear one for a couple of days for each school. See which one feels right or when people inquire gets you the most excited to talk about. Not very scientific but I’ve heard it works. Lol.
Pomona and Williams are highly regarded by employers/graduate schools. If you want the person on the street to be impressed, pick Duke or Hopkins.
There must be a reason why you are leaning towards Duke. If it is the best fit, don’t hesitate to attend. Be very skeptical of people who claim that LACs are “MORE” prestigious than world-renowned research universities. It is simply not true. Hopkins and Duke have global reputations. The same cannot be said of Pomona and Williams.
From Pomona’s website: "Within 10 years of graduating, over 80% of Pomona alumni were either pursuing or had completed an advanced degree, and Pomona ranks #14 nationally for doctoral degrees awarded (on a per-student basis). For the Class of 2018, the top three destination graduate schools were Stanford, Cornell and the University of Pennsylvania. Also in 2018, the average acceptance rate of Pomona alumni to medical schools was 85% (the national average is about 32%). "
One of our family’s physicians is a Pomona undergrad. I also know a Pomona grad who was her class valedictorian and went to an Ivy for an MD/PhD combo.
If you want to go to a top West Coast grad school (i.e. UCLA, Cal, UCSD, UW, Stanford, USC), go to Pomona. If you want to go to a top East Coast grad program, go to Williams (or Pomona). You have won the liberal arts college lottery!
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Congratulations! All your choices are great colleges which will provide a wonderful education and set you up for excellent options afterwards. If you prefer Duke, go to Duke!
You need to go somewhere you will be happy for four years. You will thrive best in the environment that best suits you. If you can narrow to two and visit, great. But even if you can’t visit, you can read about the courses, the dorms, the community, the traditions, etc. What attracts you and concerns you about each college? Then, trust your “gut” on this one, because all your options are excellent.
I have some detailed thoughts on this subject. First with regard to which school is an “easier” path to get into medical school, I can absolute guarantee you that whatever the “rankings” or “prestige” different outsiders place on these schools, no medical school is going to put them in different piles. People disagree on how much a school’s reputation and rank matter for medical school admissions, but no medical school is going to favor one of these schools over another based on quality. These are all world class places. Second, and more importantly, you need to consider in detail what medical schools are looking for when evaluating undergraduate programs. Medical schools not only want high grades and MCAT scores, but also clinical (do you want to work with sick people) and research experience. They want leadership and service, just like college does now. It is a grind. It may be unfair that as soon as you start college, you need to think about medical school, but many medical schools have acceptance rates of less than 5% going as low as 2%. That’s right. Many many medical schools have a lower acceptance rate than Harvard undergraduate. You need to realize that when focusing on medicine as a career. I can speak to why Duke is a great option for this process. Duke offers outstanding opportunities to meet these varied requirements. Duke has, in one contiguous walkable area not only multiple hospitals, but massive research laboratories, biomedical engineering labs, and undergraduate science classes and professors. Also walkable are other cross-disciplinary departments such statistics, computer science, the Brain Institute, the school of the environment and the school of public policy, all of which have close ties to Duke Med. As an undergraduate, you have the opportunity to participate in research, clinical activities, classes, cross-disciplinary activites, in all of these areas without leaving campus and with tremendous support from pre-health advising. I know many students who have done this and the abiility to work in one contiguous area not only allows for great cross-disciplinary research, but also saves a student time because they don’t have to commute to a hospital or research lab. If you take advantage of these opportunities, and do well in core courses, you will do very very well in the medical school admissions process. These other schools certainly have well developed programs, I do not know them well enough to comment except to say if you are focused on medical school, you need to move away from some sense that the name of a school will give you a leg up, and move toward comparing the opportunities they offer you to develop a compelling medical school application. One final thought: congratulations on great choices.
When people say you can’t make a wrong choice in this situation, is it really true? Every time I have my heart set on one college, another part of me regrets not taking advantage of the benefits at another institution. Is it necessarily easier to succeed with regards to post-grad opportunities at Williams/Pomona or Duke? I’ve visited Duke’s campus before and really vibed with it (it’s also worth noting that I got deferred ED from Duke and got accepted RD). I’ve never visited a LAC campus, but it may be something I want.
I think the thing that turns a lot of students off from Duke is the culture/location and if you liked it I don’t think you’ll regret a Duke education and all the opportunities it offers.
I guess you can always make a wrong choice. People transfer out of miserable situations at elite schools. I think what people are saying, at least the way I read it, is that you can’t make a wrong choice based on outsiders’ notion of prestige and ranking. Pomona, Williams, Duke, Hopkins all offer world class education. With close ties to Duke, I know that Duke people love the school as a rule, love the culture, and the area. I never understood the don’t like Duke culture theme here, because I see it as a friendly place, with highly accesible professors, a great campus, and a positive culture. But people love those other schools also. So, if you like anyone of these schools, you are not making a wrong choice by selecting that school because some outsider (like people on CC) say it is less prestigious, or less appropriate for west coast or east coast or whatever. The only wrinkle, as noted above, is that medical school applications require very specific detailed activities in college. The school you pick should not only feel right, but offer you the opportunities to pursue those activities.
If affordable, it would be worthwhile to visit all of these exceptional schools.
Based on your interests (IB & medical school) Duke seems to be the safest choice.
Since prestige was raised more than once in this thread, Duke & JHU are highly regarded worldwide.
With respect to rankings, the Wall Street Journal rates & ranks National Universities & LACs together. The most recent WSJ rankings came out in September, 2018. Overall Duke was #7, JHU was at #21, Williams College at #23 and Pomona College at #24.
But, an important component of the WSJ rankings is “outcomes” (which includes graduate salaries & student debt). Duke tied for #1 with Harvard & Yale. JHU was at #19, Williams College at #16 & Pomona College at #39. (I suspect that LAC results are due to a high percentage going on to grad school–but that is just my guess.)
While Duke & JHU offer several graduate schools, your only chance to experience an elite LAC is now. This is why you need to visit if feasible.
Four great options.
I’m a Duke grad born and raised in the south. I don’t think you can go wrong at any of these schools, but the difference in personal attention will be pretty stark. Personally, I would have benefitted from easier access to professors in the early years but had fewer issues in junior and senior years after declaring my major. There are definitely a lot of demands on the professors’ time. I also wasn’t super happy having to deal with grad students either.
Not sure I can say that Duke has “southern charm” as the student body is geographically very diverse so the campus itself didn’t feel “southern” at all to me. (It was even a bit jarring after being raised in the south.) I met my husband there who is also a Duke grad and he is from Spain. The surrounding areas of Durham as well as the student populations at the nearby schools do still have a strong southern flavor if that matters at all. That being said, we did not go out in Chapel Hill much at all as the basketball rivalry is so strong between the schools that its not super comfortable to be there. We only went to Raleigh for the airport.
Greek Life - It’s is a big part of the social life at Duke. Neither my husband nor I had planned to participate but both ended up joining greek organizations because otherwise, we felt left out. It seemed like most of the available social life revolved around their activities. I knew of many others who experienced the same thing. Definitely something to be considered if you have strong feelings either way about Greek Life.
Lastly…basketball. When I attended Duke, students were admitted to games for free with only a student ID and the school reserves all seats for the first 15 rows or so around the entirety of the court just for students. It is a wild experience (just google “cameron crazies”), an experience basically not available anywhere else, especially along with academic prestige, and not to be dismissed lightly. I haven’t lived on the east coast for many years now and basketball tournaments remain my main connection to many long term friends.
If you are serious about clinical medicine, and do not want to take two years between undergrad and Med school, look for clinical experiences in the summers and during the school year. JKU, and Duke offers that. Williams and Pomona being in small towns really do not offer that. Williams in particular is isolated. Williams is good though if you want in depth learning, one on one in their tutorial system. Search on that method of teaching, basically it pairs two students with one professor. Its a very good learning method.
If you are considering an MD/PhD go to JHU, they really prepare students specifically for that path, although you can get there from any of the four choices you have, including the LACs, if you spend every summer at good medical research positions, see Ohio State and UC Irvine summer medical programs.
Getting into medical school requires you to strategize starting right now. I am not really exaggerating, you have to plan every summer carefully. You need to leave time to study for MCAT. You need to get good medical advising, which I think all four will provide.
The clinical experiences, though only JHU and Duke provide. Claremont is a small town way too far from major Los Angeles hospitals, for you to learn much about medicine. You have to prove that you understand clinical medicine and convince an interview panel that you have the right drive, intelligence, and desire to become a medical doctor.
Consider the areas. While Williams is in MA, it is too far from Boston to access the medical programs and labs that might prove an easier path to medical school acceptance. Both Pomona and Williams are excellent schools certainly known by most employers and graduate/medical schools. Plus the advantage of a small school is a tight alumni network. A larger school can offer a larger network (which can also prove beneficial-more people out there who are graduates). Larger schools often also have lab opportunities in very specific areas which could prove useful.
JHU has an excellent reputation in IB ( or more distinctly IR) AND a renown medical school. They also have a program in Italy which though it used to be IR, but also include IB these days. I know nothing about Duke, other than it is an excellent school so won’t comment.
It really depends where you would feel most comfortable. All are excellent choices. Do you have a preference for a rural vs. urban experience? I applied to and was accepted 100 years ago at Williams. Decided not to attend because I could see myself in such a rural area away from a city and it was going to be cold in the Winter. Strange reason but I’d guess many make similar choices based on the schools location as well as it’s reputation. Williams is a great school. People I know who attended, loved it and are still connected.
So you have East and West coast, urban, rural and a mix and all of your schools are excellent paths to what you want to do. Congratulations!