Hi, I’m new here. VA resident, high performing and very directed DD junior has identified W&M as a likely first choice. She potentially has the stats to at least apply for an Ivy, though obviously that is playing the lottery. She might go to a specific Ivy if she got in, but is very realistic about those (ridiculously low) chances, and loves W&M. 1550 SAT/4.5 weighted as of now with multiple AP’s and highest rigor. Very good EC’s. My question is, if she does use her ED1 at W&M, does anyone know if this affects the possibility of merit scholarship? Admissions website says no, but I have to wonder if they tend to offer merit more to people in RD as an incentive to attend. She could REA an Ivy just to see what happens and then do EDII or RD for W&M but she’s afraid this might be risky. Thanks for any input! Also does anyone know how advantageous ED 1 or 2 is for a student with a good profile vs. RD?
W&M does little merit to begin with.
84 of 1619 got.
If they say it doesn’t…it doesn’t. Like you, I’d have rservations but they woudn’t necessarily speak untruth.
But here’s the thing - she shouldn’t apply ED if she might want to go Ivy. That’s the entirety of ED - you MUST be 100% committed and she’s not. So for that reason alone - she should not ED.
The other thing is - she’s likely getting in regardless - so why ED?
If she applies ED and gets in, she’ll never hear about Brown (I think that’s what you mentioned last time you posted).
Frankly, she should RD Brown and W&M.
Good luck.
Hi, no I have not posted here before. Brown is not an interest of DD. Yale would be her other choice if she did get in but she knows those chances are beyond slim.
Oh - sorry - someone else posted recently about W&M and an Ivy. I thought it was the same person.
That said - it’s the same guidance - if they are 100% in on W&M and that’s where they want to go, then apply ED.
The fact that they aren’t 100% and would potentially like Yale is why they shouldn’t ED.
It’s not relevant that chances are slim. Chances of Yale are slim for every single person in America - but someone is going to get in.
If she wants to take her shot at Yale, then you don’t ED anywhere else.
In the grand scheme of things, most don’t ED. Most kids apply to college EA or RD, etc.
Here’s the other thing - what’s her long term goal. If you are full pay, then Yale will be - let’s say $375-400K. is $42K so let’s say $180K.
Are you, assuming you don’t qualify for need, willing to pay double? That’s a personal call.
If your student is that strong, they’re going to get into W&M regardless of ED or RD.
So why force yourself into a situation that isn’t necessary?
Personally, I wish ED didn’t exist. So many kids are either upset - they couldn’t hear from others or they simply changed their minds during the application timeframe.
They are 17 after all.
My son changed his major four times in Junior/Senior year and his school choice last minute. It happens.
Anyway, the fact that you brought up interest in two schools is reason alone not to apply ED.
First, welcome!
Second, the above is pretty much the ONLY reason schools offer merit aid. I have no citation to back my strong belief that therefore applying ED reduces or even eliminates merit aid at selective schools. However, logic and common sense says this is true.
I agree, wish ED didn’t exist. The thing I keep hearing from other parents with recent kids in college from this area is “don’t do anything RD”. Don’t know if this is sound advice or not. Still, she’d be very happy at W&M and mad at herself if she blew her chances on an Ivy lark. I’ve heard horror stories from people in my area with super qualified kids that got rejected from Virginia schools and the HS guidance counselor tells her she should ED W&M if that’s where she wants to go - they know her scores/grades. She would love to be considered for a Monroe Scholarship even though it’s not financial help, just for the opportunity and honor we wonder if ED would reduce that chance.
Thank you! That’s what I have wondered too. I guess there’s no way to know for sure but it is a worry.
You want to do EA if offered.
Some schools that have EA and RD fill their class mainly through EA.
ED is few overall - for one you get one crack. That’s it. A second of you miss via ED2. So if you have a list of 15 schools, you are not ED’ing to 15.
The far far far far majority of kids go nowhere near ED.
But back to W& and merit - since only 5% get, you have to assume it’s not going to be yours.
Yes, I do understand that. But unfortunately W&M doesn’t offer EA. It’s ED1, ED2 or RD. She could REA Yale and then still ED2 W&M but it’s all very confusing to us. Don’t know if ED2 has worse odds.
Congrats to your daughter on having identified W&M as a good school! My class-of-2025 twins are just about one year ahead of you in the process, and their academic profile is very, very similar to your daughter’s. I 100% understand the Yale / W&M overlap — both schools are full of the same kind of bright-eyed students who are both interesting and interested. Ours haven’t fully committed to W&M, but got in RD (after not getting in to Yale during the SCEA round), and are really excited about William and Mary. It’s at the top of their final three.
For an in-state student, I would think an SCEA at Yale / ED2 at W&M approach would make a lot of sense. I can’t recall whether W&M breaks out the ED1 admit rate vs. the ED2 admit rate on their CDS / in news releases, but I would think that W&M would still see the ED2 as a strong signal, and I think an applicant with your daughter’s profile would be in really good shape for an ED2 admit. (Would recommend interviewing this summer with the W&M office, either way!) ED2 would still leave the dilemma of where else to apply RD (since ED2 deadline is the same as RD), but I’d be happy to chat through our process and school lists. I spent a lot of time this year asking the question “what schools are closest to W&M?” in different ways.
If the timing works…
If your student is straight As, has rigor, and a 1550 as you decide, RD likely has little risk - that’s what you’re missing.
For schools that don’t offer EA, then you RD.
W&M had nearly 18,000 applicants. 1586 or less than 10% were ED.
Are you sure she’s down to these two?
In the end, you can apply ED1 or 2 to W&M - but then you can’t complain about Yale and not knowing. You’ll be giving up that right - because she’s likely going to get in ED1, ED2, or RD - based on info you provided.
This is good advice! You would have the chance to apply to Yale but, if admitted, not be obligated to go, and to hear back early enough that you could consider whether to ED2 to W&M or decide to apply to many schools RD, as you and your D feel in late December/early Jan is the right course.
Just to be clear, I think they’d need to apply to a bunch of schools if going the ED2 route … the timeline would dictate that they’d need to apply to W&M by Jan. ~5th (whether RD or ED2) alongside other schools whose RD deadlines probably range from Jan. 1 to Jan. 15. The key distinction would be the commitment inherent in an ED2 classification, and the ① possible acceptance boost and ② possible decrease in Monroe odds that an ED2 application might yield.
For those not as up on W&M application stats, the ED rounds do seem to offer an advantage — I believe last year’s CDS numbers showed W&M’s RD admit rate at ~33% and ED admit rate at ~47%, for a relative advantage of ~143%. (With caveats of “ED probably also includes recruited athletes; I’m not sure about ED1 vs. ED2; etc. etc.” that could impact the math.)
For the record, I’m glad that our kids SCEA’d, even though it didn’t work out; I think they would have always wondered what would have happened if they hadn’t.
Do you mean an ED2 would likely decrease Monroe odds? (or either ED cycle)?
You really should talk to your school’s guidance counselor about whether any ED kids have been offered Monroe or 1693. If they can’t answer that question, it’s a fair question to ask the admissions office. They have zero reason to lie to you.
I’m not looking at their CDS now, but I am pretty sure W&M considers the interview, so sign up for one. If you don’t see anything available now, keep checking throughout the summer and fall. And if this is your kid’s top choice, plan another interview somewhere else that she doesn’t care about first so that they have some experience. Both of my kids had great virtual interviews with current W&M students. The senior interviewers seems to be a friendly, well-trained bunch.
FWIW, my 25 was offered Monroe RD, as were some friends (OOS). But in state vs out of state stats can vary wildly.
I am not an expert on how they select for Monroes. I suspect that their number one goal is to draw in a group of top-stats students, to create a great experience and community for that cohort, and that the yield strategy for RD students is less of a motivation for them.
But I do think it works as a carrot to draw high-stats students who might otherwise go elsewhere (so: RD applicants) to yield to the school. It worked for me! I was in-state and was deciding between UVA and W&M. I was hoping I might get Echols at UVA (I had a few friends a year or two higher than me in high school who had gotten it), but — womp womp — I didn’t get it. I did, however, get Monroe, which I didn’t know anything about. Even with the Monroe offer, I was 50/50 on which school I wanted to go to. Ultimately, I went with W&M, and am so glad that I did!
So one scenario is the standard “let’s sweeten the pot” situation that got me (an RD applicant) to yield to W&M.
I know, though, that ED applicants in the past have gotten the Monroe scholarship … because that describes my wife! She applied ED (at the time, there was only what we now call ED1), and she was given the Monroe Scholarship offer with her early acceptance.
The non-cynic in me wants to think that their overarching goal is to pull together the highest-stats kids in the Monroe cohort, and that the yield benefits are secondary. That is, that a high-stats applicant would get Monroe either way. But, as @Cinnamon1212 and @Elpsaa noted, we don’t really have insights into how they do their selection. I think @Elpsaa’s idea to ask your kids’ college counselor about Monroe acceptances in the ED round (or even to post the question in the /r/williamandmary subreddit) could make sense.