Nothing substantive to add but I applaud your daughter’s integrity in dealing with this. She will end up in a great place one way or another and with your guidance she will get there by treating everyone with honesty, appreciation, and respect.
@MrsJayBird That’s good news. No doubt a tough call, but I think it’ll be better for your daughter in the long run. It’ll be much easier and less awkward for her to have discussions with other coaches now.
Given that she now has a window of time, I’d encourage her to reach out to any of the other Ivies where she might have interest. You’ve mentioned HYP in the thread so I’m not sure if she’s reached out to the others recently. Penn, Brown, etc., might be great fits for her and by casting a wide net she’ll increase chances of coach support. It’ll also give her a good indication of whether she’s viewed as an Ivy caliber athlete. That is, if she gets interest from multiple coaches in the conference she might have a better sense of where she stands than if only communicating with one coach. Whereas if she contacts all the coaches and only one is interested, and is vague about support, that might affect how she decides to proceed in a few weeks.
I can’t see pre reads being an issue with your daughter’s academic record. I think at these schools it’s going to come down to athletic fit.
We think she has a fair chance at lower Ivy’s, but she really does prefer being at this NESCAC. So I guess it’s HYP or bust.
I hope when she talks to the HYP coach this Friday, he can tell her exactly where she is on his list. She should probably tell him about the two week deadline.
She should definitely tell the coach about the 2 week deadline. I think most coaches will appreciate the situation your D is in and not leave her hanging.
@MrsJayBird - I haven’t gone back through all the threads, so excuse me if this has been answered already. Has you daughter toured in person HYP and does she think it is a good fit for her? It sounds like she really likes her current NESCAC choice a lot and is very happy.
My daughter is a D1 recruit and was one of the top athletes in the country in her sport when it all shut down for Covid. She eliminated several schools after unofficial visits and invites to junior days in January and February. She found that both the school environment and team were not the best fit for her at several Ivys and 2 top public schools in her sport.
I am sure many people will think she is crazy for passing on a preread from several of these schools over the last few weeks and she could end up with no offers, but she is standing firm on fit for both her sport and academic culture and down to 4 schools that check all her boxes.
Your daughter sounds amazing and very focused and guessing she has done her homework on all these schools, but team and school culture does really vary within this group. Most likely telling you things you already know - but on these visits my husband I were both surprised on all the differences and had viewed HYP as more similar vs different.
@coffeeat3 I agree with you that visiting the school would have been great. Unfortunately, due to the pandemic, she did not have a chance to visit any of these schools. All she has to go by is what she sees online and by talking to the students who are there.
It’s great that your daughter was able to visit the schools and make a good decision for yourself!
JayBird, please let us know how things turn out. My son is in the same situation as your daughter and it’s so very stressful and exciting , both at the same time.
We’re in the middle of a waiting and wondering game right now.
My D had a great talk with the HYP coach and he assured her that the fact they are engaging so much with her is because they are seriously considering her. We told him about the deadline she has (in about a week and a half) and he was quite shocked about it. He explained that he didn’t have the pay-grade to offer her a slot, and that it would involve discussion with his boss (a head/director coach) this coming week. It sounds like this HYP operates at a slower pace than my D’s NESCAC school and we hope that they will find her attractive enough to be able to offer her a spot. But the HYP coach told me she was the first athlete he called! I’m not sure if he meant for the whole team or for her event.
We’ve thought about some possible outcomes
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HYP verbally offers a spot and promises a likely letter in a week
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HYP says that they need to see what other recruits do and can’t offer her an answer by next week
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HYP says they’re no longer interested.
Case 2 is the most worrisome because she doesn’t want to walk away from the NESCAC and find out she has nothing in October. The ideal case would be the NESCAC still has a spot for her, but I’m guessing they will be filled up, and that they might be upset with her. And that makes us sad because she loves this NESCAC which is why she already turned down other great NESCACS, LACs, and bigger D3’s. However, I told her if case 2 happens, she might want to start talking to those other schools again and tell them what happened. At least those schools won’t be upset with her because she never strung them along and I hope they don’t fill all their spots before the ED deadline.
We’re trying to chance her for case 1. We wonder how much the HYP coach would just be happy to fill their roster and be done with it. She has some things in her favor 1) she is in the ballpark of their minimum recruiting standard, achieved before her junior year. (She lost her junior year due to Covid). 2) Her GPA, test scores, and rigor should raise their average AI, if there is such a need. 3) the fact that she has test scores could help eliminate that element of uncertainty that coaches must be dealing with right now.
Something interesting is that based on this past winter season, the best girl at the NESCAC had a better PR than the best girl at the HYP. So it does seem like the athletes could be interchangeable. We hope this makes my D look more attractive to the HYP.
Anyway, this is where she is now. This upcoming week will be an interesting one.
Regarding Case #1…you need to get a pre-read first. Coaches can’t promise likely letters. The student has to submit the application before any likely letter can be sent. Committees that send out likely letters generally won’t start meeting until end of September. Who knows what the timeline and process will look like this cycle.
Not every recruited HYP athlete who has been given a slot will receive a likely letter…sometimes it’s just because the committee is behind and doesn’t get them all out by mid-December (assuming applying ED/SCEA/REA, and of course P only has RD this year). Recruited athletes who have slots and full coach support who don’t receive a likely letter can still be accepted, and are every year. Select non-athletes also receive likely letters.
Bottom line, ask the coach for a pre-read, but do not ask the coach for a likely letter. Fair to ask the coach to detail the entire process from now thru likely letter and acceptance.
Lastly, I am not sure why the coach would be surprised that your D has two weeks to make a decision on the offer from the NESCAC school…that is not uncommon to give athletes a deadline to accept the offer.
In our experience for this year (and our only experience - so I am not an expert) my daughter is going through the process with D1-Ivy programs right now.
Even after a positive pre-read and a commitment to/from a coach, she was told a likely letter would not be released until Oct 1-15 and they have her completed application minus the need for an alumni interview. Her official acceptance would come at the same time they release ED/REA decisions.
Two coaches requested she contact them if she heard otherwise (they all know each other and they all know who she is speaking with to be recruited), as the process is not on the same timeline as last year with no official visits, missing test scores from some recruits and admissions still working on the current class. Coaches for her sport are on a slower track this year vs past recruiting years.
She has pulled herself from a few of the schools based on fit after either her unofficial visits, Junior invites this past Feb or Zoom meetings with coach and teammates over this summer.
Coaches at several of these schools told her that admissions just started letting them walk over stats the past 10 days and she is in review at these schools with admissions/pre-reads. I don’t know if it differs by sport and school, but in her case this is info from several Ivy coaches and they are all saying the same thing.
Coaches had her stats for ages, ACT in the Fall of 2019, grades sent to them each quarter with complete transcript for 9th-11th grade submitted in early June, school profile, calls with her coach and saw her at events in the Spring, Summer and Fall of 2019.
Just a long waiting game for us - and may be the sport, but we are not counting anything done even with the amount of interest and she is working on a back up plan if she has to walk away from her sport, as she is not open to competing D3 or club - it is D1 or bust - and we are letting her run this process.
Good luck and maybe track “runs” faster with their recruiting timeline.
Lastly, I am not sure why the coach would be surprised that your D has two weeks to make a decision on the offer from the NESCAC school…that is not uncommon to give athletes a deadline to accept the offer.
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Is it because NESCACs don’t have as much pull as HYPS, so this is what they need to do to give themselves their best chance at a good roster?
^ yes, @coffeeat3 this is a good summary of the process. Ivies can’t send likely letters before Oct 1 by league rule. I’d say the majority of track athletes at these schools in a typical year are taking OVs in September/Oct, making a decision shortly thereafter and submitting an app, then receiving the likely letter a few weeks later, sometimes longer.
For what it’s worth for those going through this for the first time: the Ivy likely letter is poorly named. It informs a recruit that when letters of admission are sent, s/he WILL receive one. Under Ivy rules, a likely letter has the same force as a letter of admission. Schools simply can’t send the latter until mid-Dec. So it’s a lot more clear and solid than “likely” suggests.
@MrsJayBird re:NESCAC vs Ivy track athletes, I don’t think I’d say they’re interchangeable so much as that there’s some overlap. The way I think of it: if there were a combined invite, one (maybe occasionally two) NESCAC athletes would squeak into the top 8, maybe a few more in the top 15-20, and perhaps ten or so in the top 40-50. That’s very general, and there will be exceptions. Obviously, what the coaches will care most about when deciding on support is who can potentially score points at Heps.
My advice would be if it is option #2 where HYP coach can’t make a committment by the deadline of the NESCAC coach take the NESCAC spot. My bet is if you don’t re-committ to the NESCAC after two weeks that coach will move on and he/she will certainly have moved on by October as that will be within weeks of NESCAC ED deadlines. There are many great athletes trying to go to NESCAC schools so I would be very surprised if the majority don’t fill their spots before the ED deadline so I am not sure I would count on the other schools having openings either in October. Maybe when the other schools usually have all their spots filled would be good information to have if you can get it which would allow for plan B if you went all the way to October with HYP and did not get the likely letter. If the school you are talking about is one of the NESCAC schools that show up in every top 5 LAC list your daughter will have a great experience and any grad school or job will consider her diploma from there just as prestigious.
@politeperson - what place scores points in Heps?
Top 6 (no idea why not 8 like every other conference; Ivy has some unique traditions).
To be clear, athletes don’t have to be in that range to be recruited, and most won’t ever get there. But it’s the conference lens most coaches are looking through when making decisions about allocating support. (Although with the distance recruits they’re also thinking about improving the XC team, which changes the calculus a bit and can benefit an average 5k/10k type over an average 400 type, for example).
TFRRS is a good place to look at performance lists:
@politeperson - Thanks for the link! I took a close look at the lists.
My D’s PR would place her probably in the 25%- 35% of the Ivy lists. I think how recruitable she is to the team would depend on how much the coach thinks my D could improve. I guess it also depends on what the rest of their recruit list looks like.
Her test scores are at or above the 75% range of the school’s range. We’re really hoping that could improve her chances.
@Engineer9 - I’d love to hear more about your son’s situation.
@MrsJayBird Maybe I should not be surprised though I was a bit that the NESCAC coach would only give your daughter a week or two.
It may have changed from a few years ago though my kid did not make a decision for a HYP until Oct. , and some other D1s had an even later time frame to let them know.
I have seen the NESCAC coaches , especially in the helmet sports, go after someone that dropped off the Ivy board so I assume the NESCAC are familiar with the Ivy timelines.
I remember feeling and being pressured but we still wanted to make the right choice and took our time as best we could, though particularly difficult with COVID.
I am not sure which NESCAC it is and I believe you mentioned that she has not seen any of the schools so is there any chance that she could actually visit the NESCAC and the HYP with the most interest?
I have seen/toured several NESCAC and have been on they HYP campus many times. They all have a different feel, especially when students are there. I believe you can walk on the campus or at the very least around part of the campus and certainly the town. It may help your decision if you could step on campus first.
MrsJayBird, congratulations on getting positive feedback from the coach. Good luck. Your D seems like she has a good shot, especially with her academic strengths. As for my son, He’s talked with a few NESCAC coaches, along with a few Ivy schools. His test scores, like your daughters, are in the top 75% range of admitted applicants, but his marks are on the lower end of the recruited range for the Ivys. He’s had pre reads done and a couple of the coaches checked in to see how he’s doing, but have not talked about future plans. They mention that they’ll talk again soon, so hopefully we’ll get a little more of an indication of their level of interest in the near future. Good luck with everything. I’m sure it will work out one way or another.
@recruitparent - We wish that we could visit the colleges, too! Maybe in that way, my D wouldn’t have ruled out all the other schools so soon. But due to this pandemic, we aren’t even allowed to fly into those states, and the schools themselves are closed.
We think the two week deadline was because she had accepted the offer and is now reneging on it. I think it puts the NESCAC coach in a tough position in his ability to offer slots to other athletes.
@Engineer9 - our kids seem to be in the same range academically and athletically. Good luck to your son!