Although we are looking through an athletic recruit lens, I like to keep in mind that all of college admissions can be a coin toss. I know two students who had GPAs of 4.9+, APs out the wazoo, superlative extracurricular activities, SATs 1580+. One wanted Columbia, applied ED, got deferred, then denied. Got into MIT RD. Second wanted MIT, applied ED, got deferred, then denied. Got into Columbia. They could have changed seats and no one would have noticed!
I guess I’m saying if you have a hook through athletics, taking the near 100% (or 90%+) acceptance versus the 50/50 makes a lot of sense (unless you don’t mind taking a dozen 50/50 shots that you’d be happy with).
Both kids, by the way, loved their respective colleges. My addendum to “love back the one who loves you?” is Steve Wynwood’s line, “If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with”.
@politeperson Good points. Also, given the costs of education, it would be a rare bird who would take that risk. I think some kids are really fixated on a school ( which is a disaster IMHO). For. those kids, they need to apply to that school just to have their shot.
I’m more a fan of the love tge one who loves you. Though I’d let me kid lead if they had interest in a specific program like bioengineering that MIT offered and an LAC didn’t. OP’s daughter was pretty general ( Pre-med).
Op, Sounds like you made a good decision. For elite athletes, it’s hard to be at the bottom of a pack. Best to be jn the middle/upper middle where they can work hard and use others who are ahead to improve their performance. IMHO, bring a walk on and being a valued T&F team member is worlds apart.
My DD was contacted by a HYP school today to chat and talk about pre-read material! The problem is that she already told her top NESCAC school that she is interested in going there and will apply ED. We are both thrilled about her attending the NESCAC school.
I want her to talk to the HYP coach anyway. I told her that under normal circumstances, we would not have chosen to apply ED to the NESCAC school so soon without visiting all the D3 schools. She’s sort of mad at me because I’m so excited for her to have another option.
She’s just going to have an initial conversation with the coach, so we don’t really know where it will lead. But I’m pretty sure she’ll pass the pre-read. Does anyone know what happens next and does anyone know how horrible it would be if she changed her mind to the NESCAC coach at this point?
The typical sequence at Ivies for Track is: conversations and emails with coaches, then a pre read in the summer, invitation for an official visit, official visit, then during or after the official visit an offer to support the application with admissions. Then in most cases an early application and, several weeks later, a likely letter.
Not always in that order, and obviously this year is not typical (unlikely that official visits will happen, for example). But that’s the general process in a normal year, and the coaches are narrowing the recruiting pool at each of those steps before deciding which applications will be supported.
Withdrawing a commitment to a coach definitely could cause hard feelings. But I guess if your daughter (not you) really wants to open things back up and is willing to take the risk of losing support at the NESCAC then maybe it wasn’t a great fit after all. I’d just be honest with everyone, as these coaches know each other pretty well and things can get around. If, as seems to be the case, the NESCAC is your daughter’s first choice, then I’d proceed with caution.
@Midwestmomofboys , I was just thinking it couldn’t have been Stevie Winwood. I saw Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young play the night that Nixon resigned - they came out on stage and made the announcement, then launched into “Love the One You’re With,” dedicating the song to Gerald Ford.
@politeperson - thanks for the helpful information. My DD has decided that she is interested in seeing where this could lead. Is there any specific advice you can give about what it means to proceed with caution? The thought of a chance to attend a HYP seems like something too great for her to pass up. But she doesn’t want to lose her NESCAC offer if HYP doesn’t work out. She’s already declined offers at the other NESCAC and D3 schools so she was very sure of this school.
There is a reason they are called verbal offers/acceptances. They are not binding on either side and your daughter has the right to keep talking to other schools. BE HONEST with all the coaches and if the call seems promising, let the D3 coach know that you are still looking.
If a coach doesn’t understand that she can’t commit without seeing the school and meeting the coaches, especially in covid times, then he/she’s probably not the right coach.
Yes, be honest is good advice and part of what I meant by be cautious. Also keep in mind the track community is much smaller than many think, and all these coaches know each other. So I think it’s a good practice to assume that the coach you’re talking to today might be a friend and former teammate of the coach you’re talking to tomorrow.
@MrsJayBird Congrats on the interest from HYP, which I believe is what you were hoping for! In my opinion, your daughter and family owe it to yourselves to explore the potential opportunities at a HYP.
The college experience from a HYP will be quite a bit different than the NESCAC. The NESCAC are great schools and the reputation of the top NESCACs are up their with Ivy league but HYP do offer some things that the NESCACs do not such as a little larger school and university experience, plus the HYP network.
I had a D/S that was recruited by HYP and received a LL. At that time we did not have this CC board to rely and were new to the process but we did not commit to the school until Oct after OVs. It was also a different situation then as no COVID though my D/S was taking their time to give our top choices a very good look. The sports part was important but the school fit and academics were the top factors.
As others have said, I would be honest and cautious but I also believe you do not have to share all your thinking as the coaches are not always 100% open.
I know a recruited athlete that did not find out until later in the process that getting a LL is dependent on potential commits that were above them, so it is important to find out where she stands on their list.
If if it helps, she could also tell the NESCAC coach that her parents want her to look at HYP, which is not incorrect. They should understand but if not, I agree with with what @twoinanddone said above.
Good luck!
I agree with much of the above that you have to be honest with the NESCAC coach.
And when telling the NESCAC coach that she intends to continue looking/have a conversation with an Ivy coach, there is risk that the NESCAC coach moves on to his next potential recruit.
Word of caution, just because the coach considers your kid pre-read material does not mean it will lead to an offer. The Ivies have summer track info sessions where they bring in a bunch of T&F athletes and gauge interest. ( they prob won’ have these info sessions this summer due to covid) They already know who they want as #1 recruit, but they need fall baks in case #1 walks away. They want the kids to apply in early Sept so they can get a LL by end of October. My son went thru this whole process and he ended up at Nescac. The Ivy schools really want the top ranked athletes if possible for recruits, and then they round out their roster with non-recruits who happen to be top notch students who are decent athletes.
We did like what the Ivy schools had to offer for T&F athletes. He did like the Nescac school from the first visit though, and it is probably a better overall fit for him athletically, academically and socially.
@MrsJayBird , My son was in very similar position in another sport. He was on “the board” at 2/3 HYP schools, but as offers did not come in by late Oct, he committed ED to Top 3 LAC and has never looked back. And he really enjoyed his senior year of HS without going through the RD roulette game.
If Ivy Coaches have not been in touch (particularly in track where times are everything), then I think you have read the tea laves correctly. IMHO Top 5 LACS = Ivy League anyway (and I went to an Ivy League for grad school).
It’s been a little more than a day and my DD is waiting for the HYP coach to acknowledge receipt of the material and follow up with a phone conversation. She looked back at her email history and saw that it took over two months from her first email to his email yesterday.
We’re very worried about upsetting the NESCAC coach and want to give him the heads up that she needs more time to make a decision, but we’re also starting to wonder exactly how serious this HYP coach is about recruiting her. We just hope he will reach back to her soon.
For those of you who are advising us to be cautious, it’s still too early to let the NESCAC coach know where we are at, right? At least wait for a 2nd contact?
If only we didn’t have this pandemic, I wouldn’t have let my DD give her verbal commitment till she had an official visit to these schools. Then we wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with. Now we just feel a little bit opportunistic. =( I really hope the NESCAC coach understands.
I’d wait to see if the Ivy coach even gets back to her, and maybe even until after an initial discussion. She could be fairly up front with the Ivy coach in the first conversation, letting the coach know that she had assumed Ivies weren’t interested so she had pretty much decided on a NESCAC. But now having second thoughts if the Ivy coach thinks she’d be a good fit. Then based on how that conversation goes she can decide what and when to communicate to the NESCAC coach. I’m not saying she has to disclose all that to the Ivy coach, just thinking it’d be less awkward for her that way, so she can speak honestly.
@MrsJayBird I would agree that I would wait to see if you hear back from the Ivy Coach and see how the initial discussions go.
I would also agree with @politeperson Good advice.
In general I am of the opinion that you should be honest and not mislead, however you do not have disclose everything that you are thinking to the coaches as they do not always come right out and tell the athlete where they stand, who is in front of them, etc.
I would worry most about your daughter and not about the NESCAC coach. D3 coaches are well acquainted with having recruits slip out of their hands (as is the nature of non-binding commitments), as well as having unsuccessful Ivy recruits fall into their laps. This is why coaches’ recruit lists are longer than the number of athletes they reasonably can support. If by chance an Ivy option opens up that appeals to your daughter, remember that by going Ivy she would be opening up an NESCAC opportunity for another recruit.
Just as you would not tell a current employer that you have an interview with a prospective new employer, I don’t think you need to tell the NESCAC coach anything. If an Ivy recruit voices preliminary interest with a NESCAC coach, do you think the NESCAC coach would alert the recruit that was poised to be dropped out of contention? If you feel that you must, your D should explain that the D3 school is her first choice, but that she needs more time to rule out another option.
@MrsJayBird I think @gointhruaphase provides very good advice here, including that “if you feel that you must, your D should explain that the D3 school is her first choice, but that she needs more time to rule out another option.”
I believe in being honest and not misleading but I do not think that you need to nor should you tell the coaches everything you are thinking. The coaches are doing the same and this Ivy/NESCAC is common with the Ivy’s often trumping the NESCACs, and the coaches understand.
I do think your daughter and family owe it to themselves to take a good look at HYP to see if anything materializes. It will be a different experience than a NESCAC and being at a University and a little larger school may offer some advantages.
The HYP coach scheduled time to chat with my D this Friday. That was enough for her to call the NESCAC coach. It was a tough call but at the end, he gave her a couple of weeks to think about it. We don’t know if it’s enough time to get certainty, but she’ll take what she can get.
