Did you specifically go to Columbia? There are differences in workload(average class load at Columbia is 4-5 classes/semester whereas it’s 4 at Harvard* and some others.
Most Harvard alums I knew, including those who graduated at the very top of their Harvard classes seldom took 5 classes/semester. On the other hand, taking 5 classes/semester with comparable/greater workload/rigor per class was much more commonplace among Columbia College/SEAS undergrads I knew/observed while taking grad classes there.
@cobrat I have siblings who went to Columbia and a child who is there now. Columbia College is now strongly discouraging 5 classes. But regardless of this, the “flunk out” rate at Columbia is nil. The Dean said this in his address last year. No one flunks out. And my child has managed a 3.7+ each semester.
I can imagine Columbia College students do work harder than Harvard students. They probably need to. Harvard grad programs are certainly superior in most cases.
@HRSMom I still recall a written evaluation I got in an undergraduate course (back then we had that option). The professor wrote, “his performance is exceptional given the amount of effort (i.e., lack thereof) he put into the course”. Another wrote, “he writes with that effortless style which obscures lack of content with grace of expression. Grade: A”.
Only way I can see Columbia College doing that is if they reduced the amount of academic points required for graduation or change from a standard of 3 credit hours per standard course to 4 or more credits per course.
With the current requirement being 124 total credits to fulfill graduation requirements for a bachelors, students will fall short even if they took 5 standard courses/semester or the equivalent for all 4 years.
5 x 3 credit courses == 15 credit hours/semester
30 credit hours/year x 4 years == 120 credit hours which still means a deficit of 4 credit hours.
@cobrat Read the letter than for the Dean of the College. He said they are discouraging 5 courses a semester. My D took the IB. They gave her advanced standing. Many students get it. My D. said that most of her peers easily manage the workload, except when they spend too much time in the Meat Packing District…
124 credits is pretty standard for Ivy colleges. But again my point–which has been lost here–is that it is very, very rare to flunk out. The attrition rate is 4%, and that mainly because some students don’t like being at such a big university. If you look at the grade distribution, D’s are vanishingly rare, and C’s aren’t common.
Your D’s peers had a far different experience than most of the Columbia undergrads I’ve interacted with as a grad student a decade ago or alums/undergrads who graduated before/are still attending currently.
Most of them found the workload to be on the heavier side and some of them DID complain about how the total credits required for graduation necessitated them taking 30+ credits/semester which is 5 standard courses under Columbia’s system.
Among HS classmates who attended Ivies/peer elite colleges as undergrads and grad students…Columbia is regarded as one of the harder ones in terms of reputed workload/rigor.
Cobrat, Barnard is functionally equivalent in terms of course requirements (122 points required to graduate) and course structure – and my daughter did not need to take an overly heavy courseload; she also was able to drop to only 6 points her final semester to meet graduation requirements, when she wanted to focus her attention on her senior thesis & job search. She has a close friend who graduated in 3 years. Most of the students did come in with AP credit – my daughter had almost a full semester’ worth – CC grants AP credit as well, and these days it’s pretty hard for students to get accepted in the first place without having racked up a lot of AP credits in high school. Of course there will be some exceptions – and those students will be at a disadvantage – but for the most part the students are coming in with some padding when it comes to degree requirements.
Also, my D’s Russian courses at Columbia were 4 and 5 point classes. (I don’t know what the standard was for other languages).
My D took 5 classes some semesters, 4 in others. She had friends who enthusiastically signed up for more.
I do have the impression that (many) Columbia undergrads like to complain. But my D. found the workload manageable and grade inflation rampant. My D definitely is not lazy – she’d be disappointed if she got an A- in a class, and put in extra effort to get an A - and unlike the OP’s D, I was never aware of my D. needing any sort of leeway or extensions-- but she also had plenty of times where she skipped classes and she very regularly left the campus on weekends. I think academic expectations were high and the workload in general was also heavy, but also very manageable and the students who ran into problem probably were not managing their time well. It’s easy at any college for students to procrastinate and NYC has more distractions than many other campuses.
With my kids the timing of these types of conversations is important. In many instances when angry,hurtful things are said the person is usually exhibiting one of these signs hungry,lonely or tired. I find it best to end the conversation and continue when all are of calmer minds.
You know, out of all the advice I gave to my youngest son over the years, I fear the one he remembers is, “Well, if someone is going to get paid for doing nothing, it might as well be me”.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
AFAIK, the OP did not ask about grade inflation at Columbia; just because one person brings the experience with his/her own kids does not mean that it’s open season to go off topic. Posts deleted.
MODERATOR’S NOTE
Agree with the above; since the posts after my earlier note had nothing to do with the original post, the time has come to close this thread.
