<p>I have one of those boys too. Mine is turning 18 and a senior in HS. Since he is my only son (I have older daughters) and I never had a brother, I have had nothing to compare him too. I also worried that my emotionally remote son was “anti social”. I am grateful to hear others tell of STEM oriented boys who sound just like my son and matured into more communicative adults. I worry that my son too, may alienate himself with his attitudes. He has many of the traits that the OP’s son does but I have, on occasion, seen the sweet, “mench” side of him. It is just not that often.</p>
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<p>I’m not sure the above is strictly related to boys/men majoring in STEM fields. This was also common in many adolescent boys/young men regardless of major…I myself was like that and I was a history major and I’ve known plenty of male humanities/social sciences/performing arts majors who were the same way. </p>
<p>Moreover…with the exception of relishing the showing of lack of empathy…this personality type was regarded somewhat positively as the “strong silent type” back in the 40’s and 50’s. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I’ve known a few male STEM majors who were the exact opposite…but they were regarded as a bit odd for being too “touchy-feely” and in some cases…were unfortunately regarded negatively by most of their male peers.</p>
<p>Sounds alot like my 21 year old son, who’s not a STEM major. He’s improved in communicating since his freshman year, when he would go 3-4 weeks without calling. Now he usually calls once a week, the conversations only last about 10 minutes, his answers are still brief, but we no longer expect more from him. That’s who he is, so we take what we can get from him.</p>
<p>Just sounds like an INTJ personality, not immature. Sounds typical, and if he seems happy and doing well, what’s to worry?</p>
<p>I see the moments where the breakthrough comes, where I get a sincere hug or an actual, “I love you” back, or where my son is snuggling with his dogs, or excitedly talking with his friends. And I realize that it is just a personality trait, that logic can be mistaken for lack of caring. You can think of the positive that there will probably not be any useless drama or unnecessary stress in his life.</p>
<p>Figure out what conversations work best. They are so tired of the same old questions that we ask. I just drove my son to the airport, tried every topic about something of interest in his life. Nothing. Finally gave up and turned up the radio, as they were discussing health care law. Which got us into a rousing conversation, finally. If your son is INTJ, he has no use for small talk, which can seem uncaring.</p>
<p>Ha, sounds exactly like me. Talk about his work in school, sounds like he really has nothing else to talk about. I am exactly like that, even with my friends. All I can seem to talk about it technical stuff, never “small talk”…</p>
<p>I really appreciate all the insightful comments regarding my post. I looked up INTJ personality and yes, that sure describes my son! He is really a great kid. He has friends, roommates all lined up for next year, and is for the most part cheerful and productive. </p>
<p>If he continues to play the “devil’s advocate” routine around others, I think he will eventually learn that it doesn’t win friends. He actually is a loyal and supportive person and people who hang in there with him do figure this out.</p>
<p>Busdriver- like you I enjoy those breakthroughs and will await another one…
Truly, your anecdote about the car ride sure resonates with me.</p>
<p>Might want to look up aspergers syndrome. Not normal to not emotionally connect.</p>
<p>I wonder if he does the devils advocate particularly around you, because he knows it annoys you. I swear, there are some things that drive me completely crazy, and they may seem minor but I know he is purposefully doing it to be stubborn! I’m hoping a woman will eventually civilize him in the areas where I have failed. God help her.</p>
<p>We have had some luck getting him to talk to us in the car (more than in single syllables). When he was younger, we would agree to take him to Dairy Queen and he could get anything, if he just talked to us about any subject whatsoever for ten minutes. Sometimes we just settled for five. I’ve realized that when I try too hard to get him to talk about his life, he just shuts me down. But if I get onto some philosophical, technical or economic topic, chances are he knows more about it than me and has a strong opinion. Yet it sounds like he is very involved and socially successful at school, so I can bear it that we just irritate him, for now. It’s those little moments that make my week. Good luck with yours.</p>
<p>i have a 19-yr-old son. this doesn’t sound like ‘typical’ male behavior to me. i also grew up with brothers. not to be offensive, but this sounds odd. learn something new everyday, i guess…</p>
<p>I say that it is totally typical for INTJs. I kind of feel sad for the girl I asked out 2 weeks ago because all I could talk about was technical topics. It takes a while to get used to kids like me. The more you get to learn about an INTJ, the more respect you have for them. Despite their emotionally distant personality, they are very caring people. They might not show through the touchy touchy, feely feely, emotional way, but you know that they care if they are very loyal and dedicated to you.</p>
<p>OOH, boy. I have a pair like yours! Here’s some things that should help:</p>
<p>1) Make the shortcoming yours instead of his. Instead of “you never call, you emotionally remote meanie”, make it “I am a mother longing to hear her son’s voice. I have an active imagination and if I don’t speak to you once a week, my imagination has you dying in a ditch or locked in a stuck elevator with no one realizing you are missing. Please help me deal with my fears by scheduling a phone call once a week.”</p>
<p>2) Tell him your fears are so intense that you will be sending out search parties for him on Day 8. Then do it. This sounds drastic – and it is – but Campus Police and dorm RA’s have dealt with worse. For both my guys, I ended up calling Campus Police for a “Well student check” – I didn’t do this casually – I waited until I really had tried, repeatedly, to get in touch and it had been many days since we had talked – but it was a real wake up call for both of them that this communication stuff is really, really important (on a once a week basis is not excessive). </p>
<p>3) Educate son on the mental health aspect – anyone, anywhere can have their biochemistry spiral out of control and end up mentally ill. This can be deadly for college students as they don’t always have roommates who are in touch and know what to do. Because he is far from home and under age 25, touching home once a week is part of mental health awareness. Mountaineers carry communication gear and use it. So do astronauts. So can he. </p>
<p>4) Give him a “get out of jail free” card – let him know that you aren’t going to collapse if he calls and says he’s been jailed for lewd behavior, been to the ER for alcohol poisoning or been to Mexico because his GF wanted an abortion. Make your list graphic and dramatic so he gets the picture that you love him even when he is imperfect – then he’s much more likely to pick up the phone and let you know that he failed the chem lab or needs to withdraw from statistics because he slept through the class too often. </p>
<p>This is truly important for the “good” kids. They can so beat themselves up over a parking ticket or a broken lab beaker “because my Mom is going to freak” – they can’t even imagine how you would react about something major – so be pro-active and tell them that you’ll do some crying and shouting but you’ll be there for them -not necessarily with an unlimited pocketbook, but with your love and tons of advice. </p>
<p>Knowing that you will be there makes it so much easier to report in on a week that is less than stellar. </p>
<p>5) Try text messaging. Sometimes that gets a response faster. Not a long, informative responses, but at least something. </p>
<p>I married a reserved fellow who was well into his thirties when we met – I had been afraid “all the good ones were taken” – so a little reserve now may make a certain someone very happy a decade from now!</p>
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<p>Possibly. To some extent, he could also be an ENTJ…especially if he loves playing “devils advocate” to excess with everyone and is socializing very well among his peers.</p>
<p>I’m just tossing that in there as the OP’s son sounds just like I was when I was a 17 year old freshman…except I didn’t do devil’s advocate very often except in class when appropriate and never deliberately relished displaying lack of empathy when friends/friendly acquaintances were going through difficulties in their life. The last part IMHO…is something more than merely being an INTJ/ENTJ…</p>
<p>While I tested as more extroverted…I preferred to socialize more with people my age who shared my academic interests, hobbies, conversational topics, and aren’t likely to drag me into emotionally wrought dramas that are like emotional/mental black holes which are almost difficult to extricate oneself out of once caught. </p>
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<p>Depends on one’s definition of “emotionally connect”. I’ve actually encountered some who tossed out accusations of being lacking in that area towards those who merely want to avoid being dragged into others’ emotional dramas.</p>
<p>I agree with david. It may not be typical for most men, but it is for this sort of personality. And david, I’ll bet you are extremely smart, and if you are aware of how important small talk is to making people comfortable, I would imagine that you will eventually learn to fake it. I have a job where I often am alone with people for several hours at a time, with not much to do but talk. I have learned to figure out what people are interested in by asking questions, whether it is family, hobby, sports, politics, something completely unexpected. People will always talk about themselves and their interests (though if the other person is INTJ, it could be hard to figure out their interests). I have learned how to ask a million questions and listen…even though I often am very bored and disinterested, I have learned to fake it to be socially considerate and make people comfortable. And occasionally I learn something interesting.</p>
<p>Totally normal behavior for sons. There have been past threads about the lack of communication between parents and sons. Don’t worry. He is NOT immature, perfectly appropriate for his age, regardless of his personality type.</p>
<p>Son saved my emails I found out, though we weren’t getting along even when he was in HS and he complained about my wordiness. Keep the one sided line of communication open. Skype works if you catch him at the right moment. Voice mail also works to give messages but never expect responses. Remember in the old days a letter or a weekly long distance charges phone call was the most one could expect- if that.</p>
<p>Communication improves with age. Our 22 year old working college grad now can be downright chatty at times! I also get a spontaneous “love you” at the end of conversations! Ages and stages.</p>
<p>Yes, those "love you"s are priceless!</p>
<p>Our 25 yr old DS is now working, self supporting and connects with us more.
While in school he was possessed with his work and friends and had little time for us.</p>
<p>They do come back.</p>
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<p>They don’t need us parents any more.</p>
<p>My college senior S is very similar to the op’s. If I didn’t send texts/emails, we’d go for weeks without hearing from him. He’s very cynical about the world in general but I believe it’s all a front to hide his insecurities.<br>
He’s very social, has lots of friends at college (and did in h.s.) but no gf ever. I keep hoping he’ll “outgrow” his attitude because it won’t serve him well in “the real world”. </p>
<p>S1 didn’t communicate a lot in college but calls regularly now that he’s out on his own.</p>
<p>Seems this thread results in deja vu for several parents, including me.</p>
<p>Looking back now that S has graduated, the whole freshman year was an adjustment for S (the student) and me (the parent). I can identify with OP’s desire for communication and outward behavior that I thought “appropriate” that I now see as what I thought would ease my anxiety. I also think that deep down the things that I found lacking in him in these areas his freshman year were actually my concerns that somehow I hadn’t succeeded in my function/role as a parent --“a properly raised child would know to communicate, etc.”</p>
<p>I am now of the opinion that my decision to cease making these into stress-point issues for me (at least) was the right one for my S and I. I thank my lucky stars that I reached this decision within the first few weeks of his freshman year. </p>
<p>Since he graduated (and is completely “on his own”), the communication with him comes with enjoyable frequency and includes unsolicited statements of love, appreciation and sharing.</p>
<p>I loved Olymom’s post! I know my boy is sweet deep down, but if you were a martian just landing at our house, you might not pick up on that. I know he loves his family and it goes much farther to impact his behavior if I phrase requests the ways Olymom’s put them. Maybe it’s just the guilt that gets to him more than reasoning does. Either way…</p>
<p>Clearly there are plenty of these boys out there. I actually take solace in the fact that when my boy goes to a STEM related college after hs, he may feel more comfortable in those surroundings than he has in hs. Hopefully, more kindred spirits (even if I never will hear about them).</p>
<p>I agree that it sounds partly personality-driven, and I also agree that it sounds a little “Asperger-y” to me. The connection to you will survive and hopefully thrive. You love him unconditionally, he knows that, you and he will always have a relationship; it just may evolve as he matures.</p>
<p>I worry more about the social connection with peers. You don’t want him to be seen as adversarial or a**holish. Smart kids like him can learn to connect better socially, ie, play the game. In time it will be more natural, that is, he fakes it til he makes it. This will help esp with girls, I would think. It’s a role, one not entirely comfortable to him, but he will feel more comfortable with time, and then one day he’ll find the girl who connects with him and he won’t be acting any more. But it’s a skill, not necessarily an inborn skill, for some people, and he needs to flex those muscles. </p>
<p>We had a guy like this in our crowd in college. Always arguing, often a poophead. We loved him but sometimes it was hard and we all went through phases where we had to turn away for a little while. He’s a successful attorney, and voila-- has a son with Asperger’s. Interesting genetics. We still love him, we still need to tell him to zip it every now and then, he’s got a fabulous wife and good life.</p>