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Whose history and traditions are you referring to?</p>
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<p>I’d have to answer that by saying all of ours. To get a little pedantic, I’m referring to etiquette in this time and place ( North America, early 21st century), studied by social scientists, anthropologists, historians, protocol specialists and brought to the general public for the first early in the last century by Emily Post and others in a attempt to democratize and even the social playing field for the first time. Many of the traditions themselves overlap with those brought over from Europe. </p>
<p>There have been many well known writers on the topic since then, and of course things have evolved. But traditional etiquette is strict when it comes to reminding us of such old fashioned virtues as modesty and the Golden Rule, which teaches us to treat others as we’d like to be treated. It has relatively little to do with which fork to use. </p>
<p>Of course social mores can, do, and should change with the times. As you point out, we are a melting pot of different backgrounds, traditions, cultures. But having a point of reference and an idea of how things may be interpreted and perceived by others in the bigger society in which we all live and work together seems like a reasonably good idea. </p>
<p>As an example, let’s say you introduced the young adult son of a friend to someone who could potentially help him network in business. Upon meeting this person, your friend’s child gives a high five and a “yo,” the same way he would when meeting a peer. Your contact is turned off and privately tells you he won’t chance making any further introductions and that he doesn’t see it as a fit. </p>
<p>In this case it obviously would have paid for the younger person to have some awareness of social graces. He can argue all he wants that standards are different among his friends or that the standards themselves are stupid. We may even agree with him. But from a strictly practical POV, he will have burned a bridge, nevertheless. </p>
<p>To bring it back to this thread, people may believe they know their extended friends and family circle well enough to know that no one is going to be offended if they throw multiple parties for the same crowd where soliciting gifts for themselves or their child is perceived by some people as the primary focus. Or that inviting a large group of guests to an engagement party with an advertised registry but not to the wedding itself is going to be seen universally as thoughtful and considerate. Chances are no one is going to tell them differently, because that would be rude, too. </p>
<p>The consequence may be that people get turned off and you never really know why. </p>
<p>Well, ettiquette shmettiquette. I think there are no rules. The luncheon/party we are hosting this weekend has grown into a bit of a large event. It will, I hope, be lovely. We have invirted our local friends, the kids local friends and the immediate family. Many, if not most of these folks will not be invited to the wedding, which is across the country and we whll have only a small # we can invite. So this is the east coast celebration, and if people want to celebrate with gifts, fine. If not, fine. As long as we all just celebrate.</p>
<p>To me, an engagement party is thrown by parents with the purpose of introducing the couple and future inlaws to their social circle. It should be timed not long after the engagement and one should only bring hostess gifts intended for the hosts, not the happy couple. If a couple hosts their own engagement party, I would expect it to be casual, a cold six-pack would be appropriate. Absolutely no mention of registries for engagement parties.</p>
<p>jym, I think your party is exactly the kind of thing most of us seem to think is a nice way to introduce the non-local member of the couple and celebrate with local friends. In a case like that there will be some friends who wish to give a gift, and they may ask you for registry info, which is obviously fine. IMHO, printing registry information on invitations is gauche.I have gotten shower invitations with registry and color info on an insert, the shower being given by a family friend, and that didn’t bother me, since a shower is explicitly a gifting occasion and people might find it useful. (I know I did, especially since I lived far away and wasn’t going to either shower–they were really courtesy invitations–but wanted to send a gift.) </p>
<p>Thanks, consolation. This event is generally what you describe. My s, his fiancée her parents , sister, Bil and baby are coming in. Also my other s and his gf, my sisinlaw the good one) and the other Bil his wife and family. One close couple- friend of future in laws also wanted to come. Fine. We are going to have a celebratory weekend and will have the Oppty to “meet and greet”. Many met fiancée last yr at my 60th bday party. She was girlfriend then. Son actually asked that people make donations to EWB ( engineers without borders). I think in this day and age, few are formally following ms manners guidelines. I wanted to celebrate their engagement so we are throwing a party. I would not have wanted gifts for me. I didn’t want them last year but people brought them anyway. I guess there could be worse things than having good friends who care. </p>
<p>engagement party (followed by bridal shower) etiquette. They received many items from their registry, and several checks (I didn’t ask the denominations). Would guess at least half if not more of the engagement party attendees brought a gift or a card with reference to a gift they sent. I think many more already sent gifts to their home. We didn’t receive any gifts, which is as I prefer. This wasn’t for me or DH- it was for the “kids”.</p>
<p>The OP had referred to her 25 yo son being invited to a party, presumably by parents of a friend. I think some part of gift giving has to do with your “station” in life, so to speak. If I were to attend an engagement party, at my age / point in life I would be senior enough to the couple that it would seem natural for me to give a gift and possibly churlish not to. I think the expectation is different for a 25 yo just starting out.</p>
<p>There were about 20 of the couples 20-something friends there as well. Several gave clever gifts. They spent less than the “older generation” but most did not come empty handed.</p>
<p>More and more I understand how much of this is regional and cultural. To be honest, it would never occur to me to bring a gift to an engagement party. At my age, I am going to send a gift to the couple if I’m invited to the party, but won’t bring it to the party because even now I know this custom, I am concerned others may be unaware and come empty handed.</p>
<p>People sent gifts to their home because they live across country and would have had to deal with packing and shipping or schlepping. They did fill 2 suitcases with the items they received. </p>
<p>I guess it is regional, as I can’t imagine not bringing a gift. Then too, I recall when my parents had dinner parties-- people came with small gifts.</p>
<p>Wine, flowers, or chocolate brought for the host/hostess of a dinner party: that is a given where I live.</p>
<p>adding: it has been a given every place I’ve ever lived. For a party like yours, I’m torn what to do. My mother taught me to send flowers the next day, and sometimes I do that but usually only if I understand the recipient was taught the same thing. </p>
<p>This board makes me reconsider, all the time, what to tell my own kids about current etiquette rules. Because they do still call for advice. And I have less and less idea what’s what.</p>
<p>Alh,
Agreed- when invited to someone’s home, a small gift is common. But not everyone does it (I do, an you do, and probably many others on this board do).</p>
<p>Perhaps the kind of engagement party makes a difference? It shouldn’t matter whether one has a big soiree or just punch and cookies, but I wonder if maybe to some it might?</p>
<p>I think an engagement party for situations like jym describes are perfectly appropriate for a groom’s parents to give and for gifts to be given. It is an opportunity for the groom’s parents to have a party for their friends and family to not only meet the fiancé (and perhaps her family), but to attend an event on their behalf when they won’t be going to the wedding due to distance (and/or simply not able to be included in how many from the groom’s parents’ set of friends/relatives can be invited). In such a case, a gift can be appropriate to the young couple as their one opportunity to do something for them. Where I think it gets over the top is when he same people get invited to the engagement party, shower, and wedding…three gifts? Way too much.</p>
<p>There actually will be 2 couples who will be invited to all 3, but we’ve already discussed limiting the gifts. Also they were hostesses at the shower and the multiple hostesses went in on a gift together so the amount they spent was small. And they didnt give an engagement gift, I dont believe</p>
<p>When our son got engaged we (secular Jews) were told about 7 parties. The parties didn’t have to be formal…but they did have to be celebrations. Then a family member got engaged to a fabulous young man who is a Sephardic Jew and they do parties…big joyful parties. Do people give gifts? Possibly…I just don’t look over my shoulder to check this out. Do I bring something? To the hosts, absolutely. </p>
<p>In our world mothers do not give a shower for their daughters. But, if they did…who cares? People get it really quickly when they are considered a conduit to the wedding train. </p>
<p>I’ve been to a lot of weddings, but only a couple of engagement parties. I don’t remember getting gifts to the engaged couple off a registry or anything like a wedding gift, but I’m sure I brought something to the party as a host/ess gift,as I always do for such occasions. In one case, it was an older couple celebrating the engagement, and the wedding was private, immediate family only, so the engagement was a celebration for friends and others that would have been invited had there been a larger wedding. But still, I don’t recall any gift table, mention of gifts, only people giving the usual hostess type things as they walked into the place. </p>
<p>I don’t think the question is whether it is APPROPRIATE to give a gift. The question is whether it is expected – and more specifically, whether it is a faux pas to skip the gift. Jym and her kids clearly had no expectation that anyone would send a gift, and I’m sure she isn’t keeping score regarding who brought gifts and who didn’t.</p>
<p>What we’re seeing here, I think, is the result of in increasingly mobile and multi-cultural society. People get married who are from different backgrounds, and they have friends and relatives from even more different backgrounds. Many of these people are from backgrounds where Emily Post never had any influence in the first place. I think the answer is to be flexible and not too judgmental–although if you are the one hosting the party, it may be a good idea to ask around among likely attendees about how it is done in the relevant community–or communities.</p>
<p>Maybe the venue has something to do with it. If I were attending an engagement party at someone’s home, I would bring a hostess gift to the person hosting the party. If I were attending an engagement party at a party venue of some sort, I would not do so.</p>
<p>Regarding gifts for the couple…if the family said no gifts…I would honor that request. Plus, in my recent experience…I’ve been invited to engagement parties, then a shower, then the wedding…and also needed to travel and make hotel accommodations for the wedding. If I got a gift for the engagement party, it would be a small gift of some sort, not likely something off the wedding registry…which one would think is for those invited to the wedding. (Adding…I don’t know how many times I’ve been invited to a wedding and there are NO gifts left on the registry because they were all purchased for other parties prior to the wedding itself).</p>
<p>We are currently invited to two wedding events. I already gave the bride and groom an engagement gift…because I wanted to. They did not have a party. Now I’m going to a shower, and we sent them their everyday dinnerware…8 place settings…as a wedding present.</p>
<p>Second wedding…a destination wedding that is going to cost about $3000 to attend…for four days. Honestly I hope they DO NOT have any other parties with gifts before this event. </p>