Engineering college decisions: CWRU, Davidson, and more

College Search & Lists
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College Status Intended Major Expected Financial Aid / 4 years Expected Out-of-Pocket Tuition Cost / 4 years
CMU Accepted Engineering undecided (not CS) $19k $240k
Colby Accepted Computer Science $1k $277k
Colgate Accepted Physics $0 $266k
Cooper Union Accepted General Engineering $130k $48k
CWRU Accepted General Engineering $95k $169k
Dartmouth Accepted Engineering Sciences $0 $264k
Davidson Accepted Physics $11k $244k
Haverford Accepted Computer Science $0 $280k
Lafayette Accepted Engineering Studies $32k $225k
ND Waitlisted Engineering undecided (not CSE) ?
Vanderbilt Waitlisted Engineering Science ?
WUStL Accepted Engineering undecided (not CS) $5k $253k

Criteria:

  • Prefer in a city with many high-paying new grad job opportunities. Suburbs are fine if the new grad jobs there are plentiful and pay well.

  • I plan to take ~6 courses a semester and expect this to be the norm at the college I’ll attend.

  • Merit aid is considered, but overall financial aid isn’t that important. My family is willing to pay top dollar for quality.

  • I plan to attend for undergrad, so I’d prefer a college focused on undergrad teaching. If I later decide to attend grad school, I may consider a research university for that.

  • Prefer a college that accepted me based on my merit.

  • I’m a good student, so I prefer a college without grade inflation to make it it easier to distinguish the good students.

  • Good grad school placement rate for my intended major.

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Are you the parent (as the username might suggest) or the student (as the content of your post suggests)? Just checking, as it makes a difference in how people address you :wink:

Also, I see several different majors on the list.

  • Was CS the intended or preferred major, or would that be Physics, or Engineering, or… ?
  • Were the different majors chosen in an attempt to increase admission likelihood, or because these majors looked interesting at these specific schools?

Different colleges will vary in their expectations. And at some schools, each individual course will be a bigger chunk of work than at other schools. So 4 courses at one school might be more work than 6 courses at another. I would suggest looking closely at the curriculum for each school and major, and evaluating course load against the typical / expected course load of students at that school.

Or did you mean that you specifically want to be able to take a lot of different things (that is, 6 different things) rather than focusing on just a few things?

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Jobs are the responsibility of the student, not the school - although many schools have contacts that lead you to jobs. By this I mean - I’ll use a school that publishes the how found job data. Cornell Engineering. If you look over two years, 68 found jobs via the Internet - indeed, company websites. 51 through linkedin. 27 through Handshake (most colleges use this - the indeed of colelge). Far down the list - campus career fairs and on site interviews. It’s a different world.

Good luck on 6 classes - that’s INSANE.

What do you want - engineering? Physics? I ask - because if you go to Davidson and want to be an engineer, now you do a 3-2? So I would figure out what I wanted - and then go from there - that’s a way to eliminate schools. I’d also eliminate the WL schools - because guess what - they didn’t accept you. They are just using you as a hedge for them, an insurance policy, in case they fall short in yield. So get on the WL if you want…but move on. Eliminate them from your choices as they are not a choice.

As for paying top dollar for quality - in engineering - the MIchigan kids have the same jobs as the kids at Alabama or Arizona or Western Michigan, etc. - so what you want is ABET, depending on the type of engineering. But for example, mine chose a no name over a big name and told me all the hype was over done - and he’s right - and he works with kids, at the same salary from the big name schools. I wouldn’t pay for Vandy engineering - nor WUSTL which pushed ED incessantly. My kid was WL there - but at full pay, he’d not have gone - so you like merit - then pick a school that’s less expensive. Don’t conflate bigger name with better quality or necessarily a better outcome.

So let’s look at your list - and I wouldn’t worry about being in a city with new job opportunities - the internet has changed that - hence the Cornell outcomes - they’re not in a city.

But if you like a city - then eliminate Colby, Colgate and Dartmouth…and this is good - because you have to eliminate to get to one. UND WL you so forget them but they would be similar - eliminated. Also, it’s a religious school (the only one on your list) so if that’s not for you.

6 courses a semester- find out if it’s possible and at some schools you will pay an increased tuition for too many credits - so look into that too.

I can’t tell you which focus on undergrad teaching but likely the LACs - and given your list I wouldn’t worry.

Prefers a college that picked you based on merit…well if they picked you and I don’t know the why - but I’d assume it was based on merit. They wouldn’t take you if they didn’t believe you could excel - so that’s not something to look at in my opinion. And you will never know why they picked you - but they did - and that’s reason enough to be excited.

All these schools will place well grad wise.

So what is it you want to do - do you want engineering?, CS or physics? Do you want to be in city or adjacent to the city? Do you want a smaller or bigger school? Do you want academic flexibility so you can study multiple things?

Listen, you’re obviously a bright student based on your acceptances - and congrats on that.

But you have to pick a school - and there will be many like students at these schools - so no offense there. But that’s the list you’ve chosen.

You definitely have ways to narrow down your list!!

Congrats and good luck.

PS - you might want to revisit your cost #s. CMU is $84K for tuition room and board - so that’s $336K with no inflation (and not including personal and transport). So with $19K a year off, that’s $260K.

Colby is $89-90K - so that’s $360K.

What am I missing that you are seeing. I would go school by school…your #s seem far off.

So maybe money does matter - or I’m missing something.

Good luck.

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Schools differ, and I think students at CWRU (to pick a school off the OP’s list) do tend to take a lot of individual classes, relative to other schools I’ve seen.

It depends on how the classes are broken up, at some schools/majors you’ll see a lot of 5 unit classes with some 4s, at others you’ll see a lot of 3 unit classes, and it also depends if they break out the labs separately, and some also have little general college requirements that are just 1-2 units, etc etc… and at CWRU lots of students also do a double or triple major, or add on music / arts classes or what have you.

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I was thinking 3 credit with the occasional four credit mixed in.

But if someone was overloading, they would then maybe not be there four years - but the student wrote four years on their costs.

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My student for example (not at CWRU btw) is taking 7 classes right now: 4-unit technical, 4-unit technical, 3-unit technical, 1-unit lab, 2-unit arts, 1-unit arts, 1-unit seminar. It’s not overloading, just a student that has multiple interests :wink:

The OP will have to tell us what they meant by that comment though.

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Got it - but that’s 16 units.

I took, right or wrong, as what the student meant - as regular or full classes.

In the end, in engineering, they will have to follow a course sequencing. My kid went in with 30 APs and still took four years - added a minor in part and had to redo two classes (WD)…but engineering is tight.

But I was assuming 18 units (at least) if not more…but will see more when OP responds.

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I’m the parent, posting for my son (copypasted this from a draft he sent me).

Engineering is his preferred major. However, not every school here has a strong engineering program. For those without a strong engineering program, he intends to major in physics or CS and he’d be OK with that.

By 6 courses a semester I mean he’s aiming for ~17 hours of class time a week, or 51 total class/homework/study hours a week. I’d prefer to not have to pay extra for additional courses, but if a school is really good and charges extra I’d still be willing to pay it.

If being in a city won’t affect job opportunities then he doesn’t have a preference for city/rural. He prefers a school with small class sizes so he can get a more individualized learning experience.

He doesn’t have a preference for academic flexibility. He doesn’t currently have a double major in mind but would be open to considering it.

The expected out-of-pocket tuition cost / 4 years column is excluding room + board. Tuition only. I understand room + board would cost more.

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Does he have a specific engineering discipline in mind?

Are there specific domains that attracted him to engineering, that he’d like to be involved in, or that get him excited (cars, robots, airplanes, medical appliances, semiconductors, advanced battery technology, urban transit systems, biological tissue 3d printing, you name it… )

And I understand he might not know and that’s fine! But often there are specific things.

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Define not a strong engineering program. Colby or Davidson or Haverford. Dartmouth - you go a 5th year - three at one school and two at another.

If you want to study engineering, you study engineering. My kid chose Bama over Purdue - at one he got his own room…the other, at the time, was overcrowding and housing kids off campus and he didn’t want that).

Find your discipline. If it requires ABET to get a job (like Mechanical) you make sure your school is accredited - and you’d be amazed how level the playing field is. Yes, a few schools will always stand out - but not necessarily those on this list (maybe CMU).

If the schools above don’t offer engineering - eliminate them. You have to get down to one so it really is that simple!!

As for extra tuition - it may not apply to any of these schools but it does apply to some. 17 hours in a week - so that could be 5 classes. It’s school and curriculum dependent. So I’d check just to be sure so you are aware up front.

As for job opportunities - you never know. You could be in Cleveland and find a role in Cleveland because you were local. But what I’m trying to say is - kids are finding jobs from all over - so there could be advantage - but not necessarily. Mine had 20 interviews Fall Senior year and 5 offers. School was in suburban Alabama - and the offers were Raleigh, Massachusetts, and then three where he’d have moved all over - one in the rural midwest, one with a chemical company in the south and midwest, and the one of which he took - so far Utah and Arizona and next will be California. Not sure of the last but maybe Ohio where the company is. He chose to be out west…he could have chosen east coast locations. He’s in a leadership rotational - so the first two years are 6 month stints. He interned two summers at an automotive and they came late with an offer (as they told him they would) but he preferred a rotational program vs. a standard job and applied only to those types of jobs.

Gotcha on costs - glad we are in the same place :slight_smile:

You know - college costs A LOT - and so that is personal to every family.

Cooper Union is hundreds of thousands less than the others and still will be - after high priced R&B. It’s ABET accredited in Chem, Civil, Electrical and Mechanical. So you are willing to pay - but do you really want to pay? Get with them to check their career outcomes.

Then you say - ok but it’s very small, quirky and the like - so is that the right fit?

To me, your choices are - and I don’t know the discipline:

CMU
Cooper Union
CWRU
Lafayette

You can’t go wrong with any - and there’s some like my son - his “merit” was based on stats and I spent maybe $70K all in over four years - if that.

One could make a choice for any of these four.

CMU might be the biggest name and Lafayette the smallest name - but that’s not necessarily going to be an outcome difference. You might find “outliers” salary wise at CMU - because it is a true top top name - but those are outliers, etc. and you just list general engineering, so maybe the student isn’t yet sure. At CMU, many end up in finance jobs hence the outliers.

Have you been to all? Part of it would be - I’m here - where do I feel comfortable?

The Cooper Union (small, NYC) and Lafayette (a suburban LAC) will be the outliers here - but your student might feel great, at home at one of them.

The flipside CWRU is close to downtown and little Italy - and my kid hated the campus - but on the college confidential, it seems to be near unanimous love for everything about the school including the campus. CMU seems more a fit school based on what others write - so it’s important that your student fit there - it goes beyond academics. You are there four years, day after day after day - so you want to be where you want to be.

But I don’t see why you would consider a non-engineering school of this list.

You have to get the list down - so that to me is an easy cut. Nothing wrong with Davidson - but I’m not going there if I want to be an engineer, etc.

Dartmouth - I don’t consider because their ABET engineering is planned over 5 years - although they say it can be done in four - so maybe look into that. It’s rural…but again, their plan is 5 years - so it’s not a 3/2 like Colby/Davidson/Haverford - but it’s a longer path.

Good luck to your student - but visit all and see - where do I feel at home!!! To me, that’s step one!!!

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He doesn’t have a specific engineering discipline in mind. I personally think it’s ridiculous how some colleges not only make you pick your major, but also make you pick your preferred branch of engineering. Many kids haven’t had enough exposure to know what they really want to study, and many will change their major.

If he goes to Dartmouth, he wants to only get the AB Engineering Sciences. He’d rather not stay for a 5th year to get the BE, unless there’s a very good reason to. But maybe there is a good reason. It’s well known in the tech industry that Berkeley’s BA CS is nowhere near as rigorous as the BS EECS. Possibly, it could the same deal at Dartmouth - AB not as rigorous as BE.

We’ve visited Lafayette. The area has too much of a “redneck” feel, he thinks. We haven’t officially visited Cooper Union but we have relatives in NYC and have inevitably passed the school on our way to visiting. NYC seems to have a ton of resources - guest speakers, field trip locations, shared resources with NYU, etc. I’m truly willing to pay for the best, but if Cooper is the best then he’d go there. Haven’t visited CMU or CWRU as they’re too far to drive.

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Totally understandable that he might not know yet.

But in that case, I think that he would want to be sure that the school he picks has all the options that he MIGHT want.

If he’s not sure what he wants, it does make it a bit more difficult for people here to advise, though. In that case, specific questions about the schools on the list would probably make it easier for people to help!

Will he be able to visit Cooper, CMU, CWRU, and the others you haven’t mentioned?

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So eliminated Lafayette and I’d eliminate Dartmouth. You know why?

The AB isn’t ABET accredited and if he majors in MechE or a few others, many companies will not consider you as they state clearly in the job listings - must attend an ABET accredited school.

So you are better off getting an engineering degree, from ,as an example Western Kentucky than you are the four year AB from Dartmouth. So in this regard, you’re using, in my opinion, perceived prestige in the wrong way. Many jobs, the one my son is in for example, he could get from Western Kentucky or Western Michigan (where they hire) in addition to Michigan but not Dartmouth with the AB.

You are investing over $300K - I think you need to get to CMU and CWRU.

You’re willing to pay the best - but the best will be dependent upon the student who will be somewhere four years, day after day - so fly, take the train - whatever it is - but it’s worth a few thousands dollars given your entire investment - to get him on the campuses - which are a few hours apart. You went to Lafayette - and found out - it’s not right for him…so great - since you’re willing to spend - take it off the list. But what if he hates CMU and you go there because it’s the “best” - well being miserable isn’t good. Or the same with CWRU.

You have the resources to pay so therefore you have the resources to visit and I’d urge you to do so.

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To me it seems Cooper Union checks all of your boxes. It is a still a very high ranked and “prestigious” school - the location is exactly what you’re looking for. Being a small school, he will get lots of individual attention. Have you visited?

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If you are looking elite, highly selective schools they have recruiters from all over come to them. Kids from Colby or Dartmouth don’t stay in northern NE.

Totally fine to prefer a school in a city, lots of reasons why that is preferable to some, but wouldn’t worry about job prospects personally (when talking about the type of highly selective school).

A key here is if the student really may want to be a working engineer (not software engineer) as a profession. That is kind of a distinct path. IMO kids who go to the more liberal arts-focused of these go to finance, data or CS w/ their engineering skills (more money, in truth, traditionally)

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They haven’t had a campus visit yet. From all I know about it, Cooper is very much a “fit” school and I think it would be important to invest effort into a real campus visit, including talking to current engineering students, to establish whether it is an academic and personal fit.

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Yes, it’s so important to visit all three - of which I think anyway would be finalists - of The Cooper Union, CWRU and CMU. OP still may have other ideas to that.

One may stand out reputationally but that doesn’t do you well if you’re unhappy over four years and if one can afford the $$ to pay, surely they can do a Pittsburgh/Cleveland overnight visit (sounds like they can do NYC from just normal life).

So I hope OP can plan a trip this month - either via driving (they said too far), a train (and maybe rental car) or short flight.

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tbh, CWRU isn’t worth the premium over Cooper Union. Personally, I would pick Cooper Union or CMU. If your son wants a strong academic school and cost is not an object, then CMU. Else Cooper Union.

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At Dartmouth, the AB is not ABET accredited, which can matter in some situations, mainly if designing infrastructure used by the general public (need PE license for which an ABET accredited degree is needed or helpful – most common in civil engineering) or taking the patent exam. The AB may be more for students who want some engineering knowledge as they go into traditional Ivy League careers like management consulting or Wall Street.

Regarding the UCB BA CS vs BS EECS degrees, both take the same lower and upper level CS courses. The main difference is more in non CS science and math requirements that the BS EECS has more of (and a few students in EECS focus on EE rather than CS).

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Yes, I was surprised by that comment too (that it’s “well known in the tech industry that Berkeley’s BA CS is nowhere near as rigorous as the BS EECS”). This is certainly not the opinion of tech industry hiring managers that I personally know in the bay area (and as you say, these students are taking the same classes)… but UCB also seems to be somewhat off-topic, since the OP’s son did not include it on their admitted schools list, above.