This is 100% not true. As @ucbalumnus says, the degrees are pretty much the same with the same core curriculum with both degrees taking the same classes together. There are slight variations in required lower divs (EECS requires EECS16B but CS does not) but no one in the industry thinks of BA CS as inferior in any way. See the program comparison here.
The bigger issue is many job listings say this below - now will they know to check Dartmouth AB? I wouldnât want to take the chance. Thatâs why I made the Western Kentucky/Western Michigan comment (Iâd send my kid there b4 Dartmouth if they want to be eingineers) - they meet the qualification and get hired whereas by the rule, these companies could not hire Dartmouth.
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Candidate must possess a Bachelorâs Degree from an ABET accredited school in Electrical Engineering, Computer Engineering, Aerospace Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Software Engineering, Math, Physics, Computer Science or an equivalent degree
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Bachelorâs degree in an engineering field from an ABET accredited college or university.
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Must have a minimum of 3.0 and ABET-accredited bachelorâs degree in engineering.
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Entry-level engineering positions require a Bachelorâs degree in Engineering from an ABET-accredited college or university curriculum.
These descriptions are on many jobs.
I agree with the ABET accreditation to a certain degree. Many top schools opt out of the ABET process for various reasons and it doesnât hold them back at all. For instance, Stanford EE and Berkeley EECS are famously both unaccredited by ABET although UCB voluntarily decided not to apply only starting 2019.
I would say ABET is a good marker to look for when it comes to engineering degrees outside the top 10-20 schools but likely not a good reason to reject a top school unless you are talking specific majors like Civ Engg/Mech E where ABET has a bigger impact.
Of course both of these universities still have ABET accredited Civil and MechE (and UCB has additional accredited programs).
We have essentially zero information about the OPâs sonâs specific interests in engineering:
Often when people think âengineeringâ without any specific branch, they are thinking something like MechE. MechE is also very broad and allows an engineer to work in a wide variety of industries. Since ABET is considered to be an important factor for MechE (and is important enough that Stanford, for example, still bothers to maintain their ABET status), I personally feel that the ability to declare (or easily switch into) an ABET accredited MechE program is a sort of basic requirement for a completely undeclared engineering student.
So for example, my son (who also didnât know what engineering major he wanted) crossed UCSC off his list, for the reason that they donât have ABET MechE.
(You could make the same argument for Civil, too, but students seem less likely, IMHO, to go from âI want to be an engineer but I donât know what kind!â to Civil.)
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This is usually related to capacity limitations for specific majors. Schools where some majors are enrolled to capacity tend to manage capacity either by doing frosh admission to major or by having secondary admission to major after the students have been enrolled for a few semesters. Some schools do a hybrid, where frosh must apply to the engineering division, and then face secondary admission to specific majors after being enrolled a few semesters.
For engineering majors and CS, this is most common with the more selective large public flagship level universities, where the number of interested and capable students for these majors exceeds the departmental capacity (and increasing departmental capacity is more difficult and expensive in these majors than in some other majors). Small wealthy private schools are more likely to maintain excess instructional capacity in each department (which can also happen because the small overall size of the school means that even if half of the students major in CS, that number still will not exceed the CS department instructional capacity). Less selective schools are unlikely to have enough students interested and capable of âhardâ majors like engineering majors and CS to overload those departments.
At schools of all levels of admission selectivity, nursing is another major that is typically enrolled to capacity and either has to admit frosh to the major (typically much more selective than the school otherwise) or have secondary admission to the major (sometimes highly selective, where pre-nursing students may need a 3.9 college GPA to be considered for admission).
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Actually, the Dartmouth engineering program seems tailor-made for applicants who want engineering as an âoptionâ, but arenât ready to load up their first-year with a lot of prerequisites. They can still graduate in four years with an engineering AB that has some cachet in the right marketplace, albeit without ABET accreditation. It really depends on how broad an exposure DS wants to a traditional liberal arts (and sciences) program.
Dartmouth is almost a special case in that it simultaneously considers itself one of the top liberal arts colleges in the country as well as an R1 university and they obviously think they are serving a specific type of applicant, perhaps one with a longer time horizon than the traditional engineering student.
I donât have a clear enough picture of your student to know whether the Dartmouth engineering AB would be best for him.
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Part of what exacerbates this trend is that the large flagships cost far less than the privates and yield huge differential ROI for majors like CS. I mean why pay $70k in tuition at the Ivies when you can pay $14k at Cal. A lot of high achieving students canât afford the Ivies and that leaves just a few flagships where they can get into a top notch CS program (UIUC, UW, UCB, GA Tech). Every one of these schools have had to put enrollment limits to manage these majors. At Stanford they manage enrollment by limiting enrollment for all majors by not expanding their undergraduate class size.
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Not sure that the OPâs son knows yet what kind of time horizon they are looking at. Iâm looking at their criteria:
- Prefer in a city with many high-paying new grad job opportunities. Suburbs are fine if the new grad jobs there are plentiful and pay well.
âŠ- Good grad school placement rate for my intended major.
I wonder if ânew grad jobsâ being the #1 item on the list of criteria might indicate higher importance for this item, but I donât know!
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His time horizon seems pretty long (and undecided.)
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Definitely undecided, I will agree with you on that 
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OPâs son has got into a lot of good programs. Fundamentally, its a choice between a low cost solid engineering program in Cooper vs. a high cost amazing engg program in CMU. I wouldnât even look at Dartmouth unless the OPâs son wants to do CS or some major which may be hard for a non-SCS student at CMU.
âIâ being the operative word.
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âIâ think thats true for every posterâs opinion.
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You donât think CWRU is worth looking at?
I hear both CMU and Cooper described as a more high intensity / high stress environment (but Iâm not as familiar with them, so take that with a grain of salt). Looking at many of the other schools on the OPâs list I would wonder if CWRUâs vibe and flexibility would be more of a fit.
CWRU is also intermediate in price for OP between CMU and Cooper.
I just really hope they can get some visits in to these schools; assuming they are all affordable, I donât think it would be a good idea to choose between them without visiting.
Not sure if they have visited Dartmouth either, BTW.
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I think CWRU is very good but is it worth the premium over Copper? I donât know about that although Cooper is in a more expensive location so things might even out in that way. I think there is a cost decision to be made first - CMU and the rest vs. Copper/CWRU. Once thatâs settled, might be useful to dig in to Cooper vs. CWRU.
Weâre in agreement!
CWRU is also significantly bigger than Cooper and has a lot more engineering majors. Itâs really up to what they want.
For someone who may not love NYC - or who may not love such a focused school with only 7 majors vs. one with a campus and multitude of majors.
Itâs hard to tell - OP says the kid doesnât need academic flexibility but that doesnât mean variety.
That said itâs $200K less - but OP is willing to pay that for the right school.
btw - I often read on this board about CMU being a fit school - so if thatâs true, even given itâs big name, itâs why itâs so important OP visit and experience it.
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TBH, this is a very confusing thread.
He wants engineering, but schools that donât have engineering would also be fine?
He doesnât care about academic flexibility, but also he hasnât decided on a specialty yet?
It all seems a bit contradictory, which makes it hard to channel what the right decision would be.
But trying to put everything together to the extent that the puzzle pieces can be crammed together⊠I would say:
- He shouldnât pick a school that doesnât have engineering, if he wants engineering.
- He canât do anything but engineering at Cooper Union, and Iâd worry that he isnât sufficiently committed to that path considering his willingness to go to schools that donât have engineering at all.
- Dartmouth doesnât seem like a win, given remoteness and not wanting the fifth year for engineering.
That leaves CMU, CWRU, Lafayette, and WUSTL.
Of those, he didnât love the vibe at Lafayette, and CMU forecloses on the CS option, which he apparently liked enough to chose as his major at some schools. You havenât said anything about his feelings re: WashU.
Based on the current limited info, I would say CWRU wins. Every major he has expressed interest in would be open to him. Heâd have the individual attention he wants. Programs are strong, and itâs significantly less expensive than the other âfinalists.â
But CMU, WashU, or Lafayette could potentially win based on additional info. And if he feels certain he could commit to the very limited range of majors at Cooper Union, then maybe that amazing financial deal is worth considering.
But I donât see the point of saying, I want engineering, but Iâm going to spend 200K+ on a school that doesnât have it.
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Itâs actually not that confusing if you filter it through the lense of someone trying to cover as many âbasesâ as possible. What many of us are interpreting as a desire for flexibility is really a reflection of someone who has probably paid a lot of attention to College Confidential discussions and is honestly torn between 1) Whether an Ivy degree is worth the money, 2) Whether LACs with their vaunted small classes and individual attention - are worth the money, and 3) Whether an engineering degree with its near certain marketability upon graduation trumps everything else.
Veteran CCers have been debating this for a decade or more. Makes perfect sense that a 17y/o would be âconfusedâ.
ETA: It doesnât sound like DS is completely sold on the idea of engineering as a career and the advantage of attending a university that has an all-you-can-eat, ABET vetted, engineering program rapidly diminishes, if he is still undecided on Matriculation Day because the longer it takes for him to start filling his schedule with prerequisites, the more likely that âfifth yearâ will become necessary.
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