Environmental engineering major without calculus [in high school] at UCs & elsewhere?

College Majors Engineering Majors
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My son attends a San Francisco public school. He will take Precalculus Honors this year in 12th (along with AP Bio and AP Physics; took regular Chem last year and his favorite class of all time was APES). He is interested in applying to programs in Enviromental engineering and also Env/Earth/Geo/Forestry/Wildlife/Ag Sciences. He is not taking the SAT/ACT. His focus is UCs, CSUs and WUE.

We were talking about selecting majors for the UCs last night. I didn’t know how to guide him. (Our eldest is in the humanities and we aren’t STEM people.)

Will not having completed Calc by 12th negatively impact his candidacy? All things being equal if he’s interested in both should he lean into sciences over eng?

Note: he has an unusual resume for a future scientist or engineer with a lot of wage and intern work experience in nature, a spike extracurricular that involves a physical activity and significant coursework in visual art and language as well.

Background: SF has long denied students access to Algebra I in middle school, which forces students to double up in math in 9th or 10th of take an inadequate compression course in 11th. The workaround regime is implemented differently-inequitably-at different schools. Small schools like his don’t have scheduling capacity for all workarounds. Compromises had to be made. Now they’re bringing back middle school compression. Of course. Sigh.

Anyway I tend to think people should follow their dreams regardless but I suspect his transcript will look a bit different from other env eng candidates. He has rigor but it’s spread out.

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No UC or CSU requires Calculus but for Engineering students some exposure to the subject is helpful prior to starting at any college.

How are his Math grades? The UC’s and CSU’s require Math placement tests so they will place him an appropriate level course in college.

To start off, what are his UC GPA’s
and CSU GPA’s?

https://rogerhub.com/gpa-calculator-uc/

My older son was an Environmental science major at UC Davis, had taken AP Calculus in HS but Math was not his strong suit and did some review over the summer prior to attending UCD. For his major, he took 2 Calculus courses and one Stats course.

Environmental Engineering will require more Math course’s but if he has a strong Math foundation, it will not be an issue.

He will be evaluated within the context of his HS so if his Math progression is typical, it will not impact him in the admissions process.

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These are the schools that are ABET-accredited for environmental engineering that are in WUE or a California public. It sounds as though your kid has been a pretty strong student overall. The only schools I think could be unlikely to result in an acceptance are Cal Poly-SLO, UC Davis, and UC Irvine. There will be lots of options for your son with no calculus on his transcript.

  • Arizona State

  • U. of Arizona

  • Cal Poly Humboldt

  • Cal Poly – SLO

  • UC – Davis

  • UC – Irvine

  • UC – Merced

  • UC – Riverside

  • Colorado State

  • Montana State

  • Montana Tech

  • U. of Nevada – Reno

  • New Mexico M&T

  • Northern Arizona

  • Utah State

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No Calculus in High school should be fine specially in his case due to SF middle school policy. But he may want to reconsider not taking SAT/ACT. Some WUE schools offer WUE merit to top students only. For example, Oregon State only offer WUE to top 1/3 students from WUE states, test score is part of the valuation. Good Luck.

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I don’t think the no calculus will necessarily hurt.

Are you open to and will the student be admitted to Merced? That’s your fail safe UC and Cal Poly Humboldt is the fail safe CSU. Very few CSUs (and even UCs) have the accredited major.

Is the UC/CSU / WUE thing for location purposes (you want to be close to home) or budget purposes?

If for budget, and you’d want other options beyond these geographies, then yes, a test would be smart - as you can get cheaper schools but some require a test for merit.

But if Cal Poly Humboldt is perfectly acceptable - and I don’t know the stats so the student might be well above - but if that (or Merced) are acceptable and desirable to you, you’re likely in a safe zone.

There’s 113 accredited schools in the major. How many match up with WUE you’d have to bounce off - but in CA the schools are:

Cal Poly Humboldt
California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
University of California, Davis
University of California, Irvine
University of California, Merced
University of California, Riverside
San Diego State University
University of Southern California

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Also look into a Civil Engineering major with an Environmental concentration which might open up more schools options.

Example is Chico state: Bachelor of Science in Civil Engineering – Civil Engineering – Chico State

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Few US universities explicitly require or favor calculus in high school. The only California public university that I know of in this category is CPSLO. Note that the college schedule templates for environmental engineering majors at California public universities start with calculus 1 – advanced placement in math is not required or assumed.

WUE schools are generally less selective ones which are unlikely to be picky about calculus in high school.

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Thanks, very helpful. Haven’t used the GPA tools yet but his grades are As in math and science except one semester of Alg2 Honors that was a B.

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Thank you–good to know. I think SLO’s hands-on approach would be very good for him but since that school admits by major and he has a range of interests he’ll probably pick the least impacted of his options there. Seems like SLO’s algorithm also rewards extra A-G classes which he has in several areas.

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Happily this dovetails with our WUE and safety research. Definitely pondering which UCs to pick Eng and which science (all things being equal presently) so this helps. Particularly excited about UNR and its rise as a research institution.

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Gumbymom, I think what’s so punishing about SFUSD’s math pathway regime–which is, as predicted, now being phased out and middle school acceleration options returning–is that some students ARE able to access the workarounds. (Even at his small school some doubled up in 10th but he chose to take AP Spanish lit having been an immersion student to finish the pathway. The scheduling capacity wouldn’t allow more change and our community college concurrent program purposefully blocks kids from taking math to get around the district before 11th.) so it’s hard to predict what UCs will regard as possible or even baseline. Our high schools have very inequitable offerings and pathways built in, it seems.

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Yes I saw that WUE and some other merit opportunities were linked to the tests. He doesn’t seem to test that well in math, frankly. (Better but not amazing in science and language.) I think preparing for it would sap him of senior year joy so we decided to just run with what he can qualify for without.

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Good logic here. He will likely apply to both Merced and Humboldt. His CA and WUE choices are partly driven by his love of outdoorsmanship and proximity to nature. It’s really important to him and he wants to recreate as well as study it. He wants to keep earning wilderness first aid certs and do summer work there too. Merced’s proximity to Yosemite is good. Air quality less (he has asthma and having grown up in Central Valley I’m well versed in bad AQ). But he’ll apply to keep Eng option open.

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How’s the air quality up in Eureka/Arcata? Sounds like a winner for him too - given the location?

I would apply for the major I want and not a different, less impacted one at whatever school.

On the flip side, engineering is a difficult major with the highest level of change/drop out rates - and it’s very math intensive - so if he struggles on tests, etc. So you want to ensure they have an alternative major that suits him, wherever he goes, in case he needs to pivot.

It’s great he loves Reno - and I agree, it’s a fine school.

And there are smaller ones, like NM M&T or Montana Tech, if the student prefers small - although it’d be a more local student body most likely.

Sounds like you’re dialed in very well.

Best of luck.

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I would just be careful with this. I believe that students are able to switch majors there, if there’s space available, AND if the student would have met the admissions threshold to be accepted into the major as a first year student. I’ve often heard it’s best to apply for the hardest program, because then you leave all your other options open should you change your mind.

I will tag others who are more informed on this issue, though, to confirm or clarify anything I misstated (@ucbalumnus, @gumbymom, @eyemgh).

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It is hard to swim upstream, but applying to the hardest admit will be, well…the hardest admit. :wink:

I’d pick the one that resonates the most, knowing that switching can be tough. If that’s really important, then Cal Poly might not be the best option.

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The UC’s and CSU’s will be well aware of the limitations on the Math progression for SFUSD students.

When it comes down to UC predictions, it is difficult for all applicants. Each campus reviews the applicants independently and have their own set criteria of what they are looking for in an applicant so you need to apply widely to the UC and CSU system.

All the CSU’s admit by major and switching majors in general is not too difficult accept for the highly impacted majors and campuses.

For the UC’s, here is a quick run down of how they admit based on major and I will be specific for Engineering and Environmental Science.

For the UC’s, they all admit by major for Engineering. Switching within the College of Engineering is not hard unless there are specific limitations. Changing from a non-Engineering major to an Engineering major can be very difficult to impossible in some situations.

UCB: Admit by major for Engineering. For Environmental Science, the College of Natural Resource admits into the College. Alternate majors are considered during the waitlist process.

UCLA: Admit by major for Engineering. For Environmental Science, the College of Letters and Sciences does not admit by major. Alternate majors are rarely considered.

UC San Diego: UCSD admits by major for all majors. Admit by major for Engineering and all Engineering majors are selective. UCSD considers alternate majors so selecting a non-selective major is recommended for an alternate so he can select Environmental Systems for his alternate.

UC Santa Barbara: Admit by major for Engineering. For Environmental science, the College of Letters and Sciences does not admit by major.

UC Irvine: UCI admits by major. Admit by major for Engineering and will consider an alternate major especially if it is not impacted so he can select Environmental Engineering as 1st choice and Environmental Science as an alternate.

UC Davis: Admit by major for Engineering. For Environmental Science, the College of Agriculture and Env Science admits by college. Alternate majors are occasionally considered.

UC Santa Cruz: Admit by major for Engineering. For other majors, you are admitted into a “proposed major” and need to take required classes to declare. Alternate majors are considered.

UC Riverside and Merced: Admit by major and will consider alternate majors.

All UC’s and CSU’s will consider the # of a-g courses taken beyond the minimum requirements during their application review especially the impacted campuses.

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Yes, several subjects get bonus points for courses beyond the a-g minimum. Math is the subject with the largest bonus points.

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However, UC Merced is not difficult to change major at, including to any engineering major.

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Can only speak to CNR, not Engineering…My daughter is a rising sophomore in CNR and did not take calculus in high schools (for similar reasons: she had gone to an arts-focused charter school for middle school which was not strong in math, then entered a different high school and was placed in Math 1 in 9th, then Math 2 in 10th, Math 3 in 11th, then AP Stats in 12th. Her high school doesn’t allow doubling up in any subject, so once you’re on the “regular” track for math, there’s really no opportunity to get off and reach calc by 12th).

So for CNR at least, you can still be competitive without calc.

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