Estates, Wills and Executors

Parent Cafe
1

<p>OK</p>

<p>If someone dies, AND their will is NOT filed with their state…
how does one know IF the wishes of the deceased are being fulfilled
AND
IF the executor does not fulfill those wishes (distributing $/property) how would anyone know?
Is there a penalty?</p>

<p>A formal Will can be written yet it seems that unless the executor actually files and fulfills requests (both formal (Will) and informal (notes or verbal instructions))…that the wishes of the deceased could go not completed.
Correct??</p>

2

<p>You will need to consult an attorney. The laws vary by state. But generally a will should be filed with the county where the deceased person lived or a county where they owned real estate. If you know that a will exists, you can usually take legal action to force the filing of the will. Then you would have access to it. And if the terms are not being followed, you can probably take legal action in the same court to force the executors to follow the terms. But if you are not sure if a will exists, that is a problem. If the deceased had an attorney, I guess I would start by contacting them to see if a will exists and ask if they know whether & where it has been filed.</p>

<p>I am involved in an estate where a person who had an interest in NOT seeing the will filed (probate without a will would have been much more favorable to her) tried to steal the will. It was crazy. We (named executors in the will) had sent a friend to the deceased’s house to pick up the will. We were hundreds of miles away at the time… the person who wanted the will had been watching the house, and once she saw our friend go in, she went to the door and asked the friend to give her the will. The friend, who rarely has a lot of backbone, stood up to her and said he would not – it was in his internal jacket pocket at the time! It was filed without incident, and (eight year later) we are just working on closing the estate this week. Without the will, the “will thief” could have walked with all the assets under the probate rules. I am pretty sure she would have destroyed the will and hoped it was the only copy if our friend had handed it over, as it would have been worth over a million dollars to her if the probate rules with no will had been followed.</p>

3

<p>Thanks
I know the will exists.
I know verbal instructions and also private written notes exist that were to convey with jewelry.
I know all of the property did not automatically roll to one person (who is the executor)
The executor has already tried to “steal” money from me–ie I am supposed to received 1/3 of an annuity…I haven’t seen it, know it exists and the executor tried to convince me it is a “mistake” and said I should give the $ to him after I get it…
Not sure how I will even get it … I do have the name of the broker/banker and need to send a letter now.
The executor has my ss#, saying he needed it for something. Hoping that things haven’t been done illegally.
I have asked when the will be filed (its been 7 weeks since the death) and I have asked for a copy. So far, nothing.
…sigh</p>

4

<p>Being executor and being an heir have nothing to do with each other (sometimes the executor is also an heir, but not always). This is a pretty useful link on how to get a copy of the will. It may have been filed, this gives you some tips on how to find out. </p>

<p>[How</a> to Obtain a Copy of a Deceased Person’s Will](<a href=“http://wills.about.com/od/howtoavoidprobate/qt/How-To-Obtain-A-Copy-Of-A-Deceased-Persons-Will.htm]How”>How To Find a Deceased Person's Will) </p>

<p>Regarding this annuity, is it part of the estate? Because seven weeks is a really short time for something like 1/3 of that to come to you. It takes many months or years to get all that stuff done. </p>

<p>Your first step is to get a copy of the will. See if you can find out if it has been filed and if you can get a copy that way. If not, Google to see if you can figure out the rules for filing in your state and whether it should have been filed by now. If it should have been and has not been, contact an attorney for help.</p>

<p>Verbal communications on stuff like jewelry seems hard to enforce to me. Not sure about handwritten notes, either. We did not have anything like that with our estate. I suspect a legally executed will would supersede anything like that (maybe a hand written note signed & dated might be helpful). But I don’t know too much about that – again, attorney land.</p>

<p>If you are an heir, I am guessing at some point the executor will need your SSN. For example, if there are K-1 statements generated for each heir with the estate’s tax return, they would be needed for that. I can’t remember all the initial paperwork for the estate, it might be needed for some early filing as well. </p>

<p>It sounds like you do not have a good relationship with the executor. But it also sounds like you have no idea what a complex (and thankless) job being an executor actually is. My advice to you is verify what you can (get a copy of the will, ask for statements of accounts at the time of the decedent’s death if you are supposed to get some – like the annuity, etc.). But cut your executor some slack – the laws and steps for executors are very complex, and sometimes take a long time for reasons out of their control.</p>

<p>If you are very concerned about the executor’s fitness or trustworthiness, you can do a couple of things. You can challenge their fitness as an executor (that happened to me – creamed 'em in court on this one, I have an MBA and run my own company, the judge laughed at the challenge). Plus, I was named in the will as an executor (although fitness can still be successfully challenged in that case sometimes). </p>

<p>Or you can have your own attorney petition for the estate to be supervised. Then the court oversees the estate more closely, and it is harder (though not impossible) for the executor to cheat. However, both of these would require you to retain and pay an attorney. Unless the estate is large, probably not worth it.</p>

5

<p>Get a lawyer–especially if you believe you are being cheated of something to which you may be entitled. If this is important to you spend a few bucks and get the expertise you need.</p>

6

<p>fogfog, sorry you are going through this. Within my family, we’ve already had one awful, awful, family-rending dispute about conflicting wills with different executors and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Alas, I am the executor of a will that the person who instigated the previous dispute and I am concerned, when the day arrives that the will comes into effect. The person whose will it is has consulted with a reputable lawyer to make sure the will will stand, but of course that doesn’t stop anyone from acting like an a*****e when the time comes.</p>

7

<p>oldmom, that is the truth. My dad actually wrote one of his grandkids out of his will very specifically because of the bad behavior of the “will stealer” (the grandkid’s mom, the dad was my brother whose will she was trying to take). His will not only “leaves her out”, but specifically states that she (and her mom) are not entitled to ANYTHING. He worked carefully with his attorney, who said that not mentioning someone might be interpreted as forgetting them and could conceivably be overturned – but when you name them as NOT included, that avoids that problem. And my dad’s estate is MUCH larger than my brother’s. So she was pretty foolish to behave badly for the smaller estate…</p>

8

<p>The lawyer who drew up the will should have a signed copy, right?</p>

9

<p>thanks for the advice</p>

<p>the executor (also and heir) was pushing me to “call for the 1/3 I am due and write a check back to him”…
I pushed back saying I hadn’t seen a document and knew that the deceased had left that annuity for several people and I knew it wasn’t an error…
I asked for a copy of when the document was executed.</p>

<p>Already know of jewelry the deceased wanted to go to me…and a piece to each of my children…and the jewelry hasn’t been distributed. The executor has said he is keeping it in case they need to sell it for $/living expenses.</p>

<p>In this case I am going to contact the banker/broker…I am concerned that the executor may have executed something signing my name/ss#.
This executor has done something dishonest in the past (criminally prosectuable) regarding signatures/$ … so its not a stretch of the imagination to think it could happen again</p>

10

<p>You would have to know who that attorney is, though. And I am not sure they will just show it to anyone. OP, under no circumstances should you do what the executor asked you to with the annuity. Although I doubt it would work… usually the executor has to provide a death certificate to the financial services company to get them to make any changes or distributions from an account. </p>

<p>I wonder if the executor has an estate attorney. Hopefully he does… someone to keep him from screwing up too badly. </p>

<p>You really, really need to get the will. All else stems from that.</p>

11

<p>I sent a copy of the link with an email telling the executor that I think “we” have to file the will, that those named need copies and that if “we” don’t that it “might” be presecutable…
Hoping to “play dumb” and also be savvy</p>

<p>thanks.</p>

<p>any other advice/info/thoughts welcome</p>

12

<p>I strongly agree with the suggestion to get your own attorney. Since the executor has done other illegal things with money, s/he needs to be watched like a hawk. An attorney will know what should be done when, and how long it should reasonably take. You need protection.</p>

13

<p>Do you mean “prosecutable”? I mean, you might also persecute your executor before you are done, but I don’t think that is what you mean. And… I am not sure your tactic is going to work. This “we” business isn’t really we, I assume.</p>

<p>And I am going to say (not to be insulting), but you are NOT savvy. You are completely clueless on this. Common sense is NOT enough to get through an estate. The laws are complex. So many people try to do this without an attorney. If it is super simple, then it is fine. This does not sound simple, partly because your executor sounds either dishonest or not smart enough to get an attorney for the estate. I am not an attorney (so not pushing it from that perspective), but I have been there/done that on a lot of estate issues over the past several years.</p>

14

<p>I guess my point is I am trying to be tredding softly and at the same time not be cheated…
and yes I meant PROSECUTABLE…as in past behavior was criminal…and cheated other family members…</p>

<p>So I am not naiive. The executor doesn’t know that I know a lot of ugly details. I have the brokers name and will contact her first to be sure nothing was executed with my ss# etc…I may look for an Esq.</p>

<p>The executor is not using an Esq. for anything as most of the assets rolled directly to the executor (surviving spouse). Since things like jewelry distribution (all now an asset of the surviving spouse) is at the good will of the executor/survivor to fulfill the wishes of the deceased…tredding lightly…</p>

<p>I do appreciate everyone thoughts and am not insulted. I generally take a hard line with things and this feels more like a game of chess right now…</p>

15

<p>something to be aware of–often things like pensions and annuities pass outside of the deceased’s estate…they are often distributed according to the terms established when they are set up as to who are to be the beneficiaries, as is life insurance.</p>

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<p>And those things that are inside the estate are often liquidated to an estate bank account (which the executor is authorized to set up). Then the executor is responsible for distributing to the heirs. I am sorry, you are na</p>

17

<p>I am currently reading this</p>

<p>[The</a> Executor’s Guide: Settling a Loved One’s Estate or Trust: Mary Randolph J.D.: 9781413316797: Amazon.com: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Executors-Guide-Settling-Loved-Estate/dp/1413316794/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1378598205&sr=1-1&keywords=the+executor’s+guide]The”>http://www.amazon.com/Executors-Guide-Settling-Loved-Estate/dp/1413316794/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1378598205&sr=1-1&keywords=the+executor’s+guide)</p>

<p>It may answer questions about whether the executor is doing a proper job and how to remove them if need be.</p>

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<p>When ,y mom died, she had an annuity and I was named beneficiary. This was not disputable. (well…nothing was…I was my moms only child). </p>

<p>After my mom died, my lawyer (who dealt with my mom’s will) told us we could not distribute any assets from her estate until the will went through probate. This took about a year.</p>

<p>However, that same lawyer also told my mother to distribute her jewelry before she died…and my mom complied! </p>

<p>I agree with others…if you feel this estate is not being honesty handled, hire your own lawyer.</p>

19

<p>boysx3 is correct, some things like annuities, insurance policies etc. may have a specified beneficiary or beneficiaries. Those distributions are outside the will and unless the beneficiary is the trust outside of trusts. I’m executor of 2 estates and am dealing with those sorts of distributions.</p>

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<p>In my state if you are named as a beneficiary of a will you are entitled to a copy. If there is real estate to be disposed of the will would have to be probated in order to transfer the real estate unless the beneficiary was already a co-owner. The same should apply to bank/investment accounts. Your best bet is to find the attorney who drafted the will and get a copy if you are named. If you don’t know who the attorney is that may mean calling the attorneys who specialize in trusts and estates in the city where the deceased lived. If there is substantial money at stake or items of sentimental value that you absolutely have to have you may need to hire your own attorney.</p>