<p>A lot of you are complaining that Chinese students should take a harder course, and that since you’re “white” therefore, it’s not fair for you to be in the same class as natives.</p>
<p>Let’s not just think about Chinese, but is it ok for a math genius to take “regular” Calculus?</p>
<li><p>I had to compete with “natives” when I first took English in elementary school. People arriving in North America during high school doesn’t get the benefit of taking “non-heritage” English. (damn it I shouldn’t have to read Canadian poetry about picking strawberries) If you think we have an advantage just because we speak Chinese with our parents then maybe we’re disadvantaged when it comes to speaking English. </p></li>
<li><p>Go to the high school forum and you’ll see that most people are NOT using their AP credits. Which means that they’re taking a course which they’ve studied for during high school. Is that fair?</p></li>
<li><p>I don’t think there’s a single person who will NOT take a course for an easy A or try to gain some advantage over other students. Eg.
a. Read ratemyprofessor.com and find easy profs
b. Ask for tutors or buy study guides
c. Took less credits than the maximum/recommended
d. Took “easy” electives (aka. taking Earth Sciences rather than Calculus IV)
e. Taking an introductory course after getting a 5 in the AP
d. Science student taking “commerce math”
f. Getting your essay edited by “professionals” </p></li>
</ol>
<p>If anyone of you has done any of the above then you’re just as “bad” (I guess) as a native speaker taking a language course. </p>
<p>In the end, I still think it’s ethical because a course should be graded on how much you KNOW rather than how much you LEARNED. The latter means that a person who interned at an accounting firm should fail all his accounting courses since he didn’t learn a lot of new stuff.</p>
<p>Also it’s just one course, taking intro. Chinese isn’t going to bump me from 3.5 to 4.0</p>
<p>I don’t think there’s anything wrong with native chinese taking chinese as a language…i’d sure as hell take English as a language if I could (If I wanted to learn a language, i’d travel). </p>
<p>Of course I think you should also have to list your ethnicity/heritage on post-undergraduate applications, so that the institution you’re applying for can see that an “A” in a course like that would be rather meaningless.</p>
<p>Not that I was involved in this Chinese vs. the World battle, nor have I yet formed an opinion on “having an advantage to get an A”, but in regards to a couple of your examples, I wouldn’t classify those as receiving an advantage.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Typically, somebody who is taking time out of their day to be tutored is struggling in a class and needs outside help in order to be, at minimum, on par with the class.</p></li>
<li><p>There are multiple reasons why someone may take less credits, ranging from having a demanding major, having a filled schedule-not related to school, or they’re already struggling with the credits they have.
Taking 12 credits instead of 21 doesn’t mean the student is trying to gain an advantage on everyone. If anything, they’re probably disadvantaged compared to those students.</p></li>
<li><p>Taking an introductory course after doing well on the AP could simply mean that student didn’t feel secure enough in the subject to advance to the next level, or may require brushing up on the material.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>These are all relative based on the person and their situations.</p>
<p>Sometimes people take “easy” classes because they’re intimidated by the subject or may just have a genuine interest in taking Underwater Basket Weaving 101.</p>
<p>That said, if I’m paying for my classes, I’ll take whatever class I want despite what anyone thinks of my doing so–at least until they start footing the bill.</p>
<p>In my high school, the Mexicans who spoke Spanish for the easy A usually didn’t get anywhere close to an A. At the college level, the native speakers are likely to be more intelligent then a lot of those in high school. But just being a native speaker doesn’t mean you will necessarily know the grammar, how to read/write, etc. Vocabulary / phrases would be the biggest advantage obviously.</p>
<p>Of course those at the college level, especially higher end colleges probably know the grammatical structures, how to read/write…</p>
<p>I might be off, but isn’t the point of college to learn?
I don’t understand the point of taking class in something you already know. Nothing is being learned. </p>
<p>I generally do not take classes whose material I am already familiar with, not even for gen ed requirements or free electives. On one occasion I self-studied and tested out of an upper-level major requirement because I knew half of the material already and didn’t feel like sitting through the lectures.</p>
<p>I do however pick classes with <em>engaging</em> lecturers and I avoid writing-intensive classes for free electives. Does that count as taking the easy way out?</p>
<p>Anyways, I don’t know why you’re making such a big issue out of it. Is it really that big of a deal? Why not just be happy that you have the advantage to take a more challenging course? Never have I heard someone get so p</p>
<p>My college didn’t let me place out of chemistry or biology or calculus, even though I had 5’s in all of them. There was some overlap with my high school courses, but halfway through, we were into new material. Helped me some initially, because I was working 30 hours a week and playing a sport…plus I really knew the material well for the next classes in the sequence. I can’t say that I would have jumped right into the higher-level courses as a freshman, even had I been able to. Might have been overwhelming with all the other commitments I had.</p>
<p>I’m sure if people are discriminating against you it’s not because of your race but rather because you are probably unbearably annoying in real life.</p>
<p>Wow. You’re special. Really. In fact, we should probably call the New York Times. </p>
<p>A child immigrating to the United States? That’s crazy talk. I doubt any other child has ever come to this country. I, along with many others on this board certainly didn’t. In fact, it seems almost foolish to think that a foreign born child would be forced to take elementary level English classes alongside their classmates. Can’t anyone see the injustice in that? Children have so much going on in their lives, that learning a new language is a long and arduous task.</p>
<p>I, Cheddarcheese sincerely apologize that you had to take English with native-born speakers in elementary school. If you would like to get in touch with me, I’ll set you up with some lawyers, and we can work on getting you compensation.</p>
<p>Look at another perspective: If the university let native speakers take Chinese 1 it would be impossible for them to educate any non native speakers. Why?</p>
<p>First thing: language classes are way different than say calculus. Hell, anybody can master calculus even w/o seeing it before, but a new language is much more difficult (ESPECIALLY, as you get older). Why do you think you see so many older asian people who, despite living here for many years, still have trouble with english? Because language is just more difficult.</p>
<p>1). Nobody wants to take a class they’ve got no chance at the A at. See the professor is in a bind; either he curves the class in which case anybody who is not a native speaker would probably get in the D-F range (since you curve to a C or so). Or he doesn’t curve it but makes the class VERY hard so he doesn’t give out 100% A’s (professors are required to give X% A’s etc, here X = ~15-20), in which case non native speakers would definetley get in the D-F range.
2). If, despite all that a non native speaker decided to sign up anyway… He or she would have a difficult time getting in because the class would be saturated with native speakers like you who want the easy A, and the class would fill up ASAP.</p>
<p>So the question is, what is the purpose of Chinese 1? Is it to teach people who don’t know Chinese? Or is it to give out an easy A to native speakers? It can’t be both, as I have shown you. Apparently the university has chosen to teach non native speakers.</p>
<p>BTW, another interesting (and somewhat related) thing. Did you know the average on the Chinese SAT II is ~750? Only native speakers take it. I have never heard of a case where a non native speaker would even DARE to take the Chinese SAT II, because they just have no chance. Think about it.</p>
<p>I don’t think you (OP) will read this and just brush it off, and continue complaining. And that’s fine with me. But if you opened your eyes a little bit you could learn something.</p>
<p>“Go to the high school forum and you’ll see that most people are NOT using their AP credits. Which means that they’re taking a course which they’ve studied for during high school. Is that fair?”</p>
<p>Most people I know that are going to top 50 schools aren’t using AP credits because they have so many they’d only have to take 2 or 3 years of college. </p>
<p>"a. Read ratemyprofessor.com and find easy profs
b. Ask for tutors or buy study guides
c. Took less credits than the maximum/recommended
d. Took “easy” electives (aka. taking Earth Sciences rather than Calculus IV)
e. Taking an introductory course after getting a 5 in the AP
d. Science student taking “commerce math”
f. Getting your essay edited by “professionals” "</p>
<p>Only F is unethical, the rest are standard practices that everybody does.</p>
There’s a difference between using AP scores for credit and placement. Most students I know use their AP scores for placement (i.e. to test out of courses) but hardly anyone cares to graduate early.</p>
Colleges are not like any other product you buy or else you could buy a diploma directly. It means really different things if a non native speaker got an A in an elementary course compared to if a native speaker got it.</p>
<p>College is there to teach you how to think and also to weed out the lazy/stupid people, most of what people learn there they forget soon after anyway so they will have to relearn almost everything when they get a job.</p>
<p>When people hire college graduates it is not because they have better knowledge compared to highschool graduates, it is because they are on average harder workers and/or smarter.(This doesn’t apply for fields where you actually need the things such as engineering)</p>
<p>The point with that is that if you let people graduate on subjects which is trivial for them such as elementary courses in your native language then you undermine the worth of the diploma, and that is not something you want.</p>
<p>If it really mattered to you Augustan, you would appeal to your language department rather than taking it to a college message board to complain about your problem. Based on your language departments definition of heritage, I am pretty sure your appeal would be granted if your experience is actually what you say it is. </p>
<p>A math genius would do well in all his/her math classes anyway, whether it be calc 1 or calc 3. So that example is void. </p>
<p>Why don’t you try and change something in real life instead of just complaining? Take initiative. Watch this and take it to heart.</p>