Experiences with holding kids back based on birthdate (when entering kindergarten)

Parent Cafe
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Putting this in the Cafe because it isn’t particularly “college” specific, but looking for some thoughts from parents with a lot more experience than I have

For those that don’t know me, I’m a longtime poster on CC but typically stick to the Pre-med forums.

My daughter will turn 2 before 4th of July and recently the discussion du jour among our friend group has been about summer babies delaying their entry into kindergarten by a year (so being a young 6 year old, as opposed to a just turned 5 year old). Curious as to everyone’s thoughts and experiences.

Certainly I get that if kids are not ready for the academics, you hold them back, but otherwise my view is that if kids are ready academically, then they should start with their assigned cohort, things should go fine. I know the typical stats about academic achievement and I’m not particularly worried about my daughter (parental education being the biggie: I’m a physician, mother has a college degree), she’s well on track with all of her developmental milestones thus far (I’m board certified in general pediatrics although my current practice is pediatric critical care).

But we have some friends who are adamant that their kids (girls mainly), all born within +/- 3 weeks of our daughter, are going to wait a year. Their main argument is that it’s better for sports, which I get in theory, better to be a freshman who has been playing with the now current sophomore class all along, and there are news articles out there about age biases in the NHL and the NBA or college basketball…but that presupposes your kid is actually going to be good at sports, is going to want to play at a collegiate level (not high on my priority list as I had a lot of friends who were D1 athletes who didn’t love their experience), etc. I also think that the argument, particularly as it relates to sports, is more needed for boys where the difference in physical maturation between a 14 year old and a 15 year old can be quite dramatic. Much less of an issue for girls in my book where even a HS freshman and Senior can be pretty much identical in terms of physicality. And yet, the most vocal person in the group about the issue has a daughter.

But, with so many people keeping their child back, it raises the proportion of kids who are already 6 starting with the new 5 year old, my question becomes how does that change everything academically? Where does that place the kindergarten teachers focus and pace of instruction?

Anyways, wondering what all of you, with older kids, have seen play out in your communities.

TIA
BRM

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This has been discussed here before. I think there was a really long thread with redshirting in the title. A search would probably turn it up.

It’s not a cut and dried answer for me, partly because there are various start dates and cut offs for kindergarten. I can give you my perspective from a NY parent where most (not sure of NYC) public schools have a post Labor Day start date and a December 1st cut off date. For more background: I have a brother with an August birthday who started “on time”, but had to repeat kindergarten. My mom always wished she had given consideration to him waiting to start as he was immature socially and didn’t even want to go to school. OTOH, I have a September birthday, started on time, did well, loved school in general. After college I worked in daycare with 3&4 year olds. I saw how difficult the decision can be. I determined that I didn’t want to make it and so I planned to have kids who would be born between January-August. I have 2 kids. The older with an early December birthday and the younger with a late November birthday. The best laid plans…

My older was a smart and independent toddler and preschooler. Easily as “smart” as the kids born a few weeks before her who would be starting kindergarten a year earlier than her. I looked at how to get around the rule. I could have had her start school in a private kindergarten, they are more flexible on age cut offs, and then switch to public for first grade. But then I thought more about it. I decided I would prefer her to be on the older side, more confident and selfishly, I’d get her an extra year before she would leave for college. She’s currently a high school junior. Not the oldest in her grade. Most of the teacher’s kids Oct/Nov birthdays in our district waited the extra year. I’m very glad she had the extra year.

So my younger daughter is currently an 8th grader. She made the cut off by less than 2 weeks. In my head, I’ve always described her as scary smart. She also is an introvert and mama’s girl and has never really loved going to school, although she does do it very well. I made her give up her stroller when she turned 4 or I swear she would still be in it. She would have done fine academically if she had started on time, I have no doubt. But I honestly don’t know that she would have benefited social/emotionally. I didn’t want to take the chance. I didn’t want her to be the youngest. I wanted her to have the extra confidence and maturity. And I wanted her for that one more year before she would leave for college. She’s in 8th grade now and I am very glad I made that decision. She’s also not the oldest in her grade.

My kids were both identified as gifted in elementary. That’s based on age, not grade. Neither one was recommended for a grade skip. Had they been, we would have thought hard about it. But it would have been an easier decision that if it was recommended in k/1 that they repeat because of maturity problems.

I worked in that daycare and later in Preschools. Some kids are ready to start on the younger side. Some are not. IMO Social/emotional skills should be weighed more heavily than academic/cognitive abilities. Waiting doesn’t look like you (General you, not specific) think your child isn’t “smart”. Having them be the youngest doesn’t make them seem smarter. There is no blanket answer. My own personal feeling is that in my state, with a pre-September birthday I would only wait if they showed obvious signs of not being ready in areas that time could help. With a Sept/Oct birthday, I would be more critical and could be swayed either way. With a Nov birthday, I’d need to be heavily persuaded by my child’s maturity before sending them on time. I also recognize that I am lucky to have the luxury to decide. Some parents can’t afford an extra year of daycare or being a stay at home parent.

Again, this is based on the NY dates. Other states do it differently and I don’t know what I would decide offhand. I can’t imagine that I wouldn’t consider either option and my own child’s strengths and weaknesses before deciding.

Size and sports would have zero impact on my thought process.

(Sorry it was so long! I have a lot of opinion on this!)

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My understanding of the NHL/NBA argument is that early on, the six year old playing against five year olds gets confidence in his/her abilities and learns to excel and be a leader. In our cohort (kids born 1999-2000), it was common for the parents of boys to hold them back a year. Our son, born in May, was not held back, and he did fine. I think a girl born in July, starting kindergarten at age 5, should be fine. It is worth noting, though ,that what our kids were doing in kindergarten in 2005 was what I did in first grade around 1970. It might have changed even more in the past 10+ years. So when people hold their kids back it just puts them where they would have been in 1970, in effect. Except that now you pay for an extra year of pre-school.

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My dad was born four days before the usual cut-off, and wasn’t a particularly big kid, so my paternal grandfather, a high school teacher, thinking of the importance of football for so many HS boys, held my dad back. My dad was more musical than athletic, and marched with the band instead of playing football. He also played with his younger, smarter, now classmate sister in a small dance band because, well a whole bunch of people were otherwise missing from the community that might have taken those gigs. He graduated high school a year later than he could have, in June 1945. Which may be why I am here now to write this note to you.

Parents can have all kinds of notions about when their kid should start kindergarten. Some will end up sending them earlier than maybe they should, and others will wait longer than maybe they should, and some will accidentally get it right, or serendipitously get it righter than right. Pay attention to your own kid. Pay attention to what your kid’s daycare providers and preschool teachers have to say about your kid’s psychoemotional, social, and academic readiness for the next thing. Trust your gut. When those other parents go on and on and on about what they are going to do and why their way is the right one, as we say here at CC, just smile and nod.

Right now, many kindergarten teachers are angry about the pressure they are under because first grade material has been shoved down into kindergarten, so my guess is that they would be delighted to have what used to be first grade age kids in their classes instead. To try to get a handle on the trends where you will be when your kid starts school, it really is OK for you to befriend a kindergarten teacher or two. They will have good insider information for you.

Wishing you all the best in your continuing parent adventures!

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Imho take it slow, let her grow. There is no advantage in running faster than she has to, burning out is a real thing.

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In my opinion…a child should be five years old before starting K. If your kid’s birthday is in July, then the kiddo will be five before school starts.

That’s a little different than States (like mine) where the cut off for entry is January 1. That means kids can enter K when they are 4 years 8 months old…sorry…that is too young…and yes, there IS a difference between a fully five year old and one who isn’t.

I worked in a primary school my whole teaching career, and those under fives were…young.

The best thing states could do is make the K entry cut off August 31. Not later.

Oh…and it would also help if kindergarten wasn’t like second grade.

ETA…our November birthday son did not start K until he was almost six. Yep…we held him out. He was totally academically ready…reading and the like. BUT he was socially much better suited for a post grad year in preschool.

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I am a mom of 4, all of whom are in college. 3 of them were fall babies (we moved in their early years, but the cutoff dates were 12/1 and and 9/1). In NY where we were originally from, I struggled with the decision to hold my 2nd daughter back (Nov baby with a 12/1 cutoff). Very few parents held their children back. People would always say “My Johnny will be bored if I hold him back, he’s so bright!” etc etc. I didn’t want people to think my daughter was “dumb” lol…and she wasn’t immature either. BUT she was sandwiched in between a sister 18 months older and a set of twins almost 3 years younger and selfishly, I wanted more time with her. And so I held her back and within a few weeks of a “special preschool for kids who are held back”, (6 kids) the teacher told me that my daughter, the only girl in the class, stood out and mothered all the boys. Right after that year, we moved to a PA where the cutoff was 12/1 so she was right where she should be in that district. My twins were October babies and so were the oldest in their classes as well. I HAVE NEVER ONCE REGRETTED HOLDING MY DAUGHTER BACK. The old saying I believe is soooo true. “No one ever regrets holding them back, they only regret sending them”. All my kids ended up in the school district’s gifted program where I would definitely say a large majority were fall babies or older. We parents noticed it and talked about it. (The program didn’t do much for the kids really and was a bit “hokey”, but as fair or unfair as it is, they were put on a track with the “better” teachers in my opinion and given more opportunity. Again, we fell into this as our NY district didn’t have this program and we just went with it).

I don’t even know your daughter but I will nonetheless recommend that you hold her back, and don’t look back. There is so much pressure on kids these days, and if you can make her life a bit easier and give her an advantage, why wouldn’t you.

Good luck. I think it’s great that you are putting thought into this already.

PS. That daughter I hemmed and hawed about holding back? She is a senior at Yale right now. I also have a child at Harvard and at Penn and one at a state school. AND let me tell you, the Ivy’s imo are NOT worth it. The state school is my favorite…but perhaps that is for another post!

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I’ll speak to the sports angle. My daughter started kindergarten at 4, with a Dec birthday. I honestly thought she was older (she’s adopted) and that she’d repeat K if needed. She was big for a 4 year old. Then she suddenly wasn’t big for a 6 or 7 year old. Then she was downright short!

As she went along in school, she played sports with her grade which sometimes was just her grade and sometimes a 2 grade span. I remember one basketball game when she was in 3rd grade and the ‘man-to-man’ girl she had to cover was at least a foot taller and easily 75 pounds heavier. Probably a 4th grader!

For sports outside school, she often played down a grade or by age. Swimming was by age, lacrosse by grade (so she played down). Even then, she was still the smallest.

When she got to high school, she was the 13 year old, 5 foot even 9th grader playing with some 18 year old seniors.

She’s a D2 athlete and is now over 5’4" (some growth in college). She’s graduating and has done fine, but would have been a superstar in high school and college with that extra year, both academically and athletically.

I think kids should go to kindergarten with their ‘right’ year of peers. If the school’s cut off is after a summer birthday, so be it. Someone’s got to be the youngest, someone the oldest.

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Change your mindset from “holding them back” to “giving them an extra year to grow and mature”. We gave our DS with a November birthday (but a January 1 cutoff) an extra year to mature, but made sure to keep him busy by finding a preschool that was specifically for kids who were eligible for kindergarten but for whatever reason did not go.

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Our oldest was a Dec. bd and that was perfect for her and us.
Our S was a May bd. He was in preschool and kindergarten at a French immersion school.
D had thrived and thrived in this school–
H rarely participated. His teacher told me that, “not every child can be a leader.”

Those words helped us decide to change schools and to enroll him in a nurturing private school
for another year of kindergarten. It was a wonderful decision. He was one of the oldest all the way
through. I saw it catch up with him when he was 20 socially–but not until then. And he was definitely
a leader most of his years in school.

I have worked with children and parents as a therapist for 4 decades.
I have super strong feeling about this subject like momoftwogirls.

I have a close friend who made the decision to enter her July girl in kindergarten.
Academically was successful and always behind socially. She is now in college and
feels socially lost.

In my opinion, many children are so smart, read, and show wisdom at 4 and 5, it is honestly
fabulous --until they hit either the academics about 2nd or 3rd grade (even those already
reading 4 year olds) or they hit Junior High and cannot organize themselves or their work.
Or they do well all the way through but their social skills cannot (not! that they should need to) keep up.

Each kid has only walked so many days in their life so the kids who has walked more days has
the advantage. (Why we “mature” folks have so many opinions).

If a parent has an older kid and that kid needs extra --well, that is not that hard.
They are in clubs or take a class in their interest.
D was vocal and synchronized swimming and French.
S was finding a private skate board teacher and an electric guitar teacher
and creative writing classes.
You can always fill in the gaps for a slightly “older for his class” kid.
It is much harder to help a socially behind kid.

Personal info–I have an August 12th birthday. I have wondered all of my life what
it would have been like to have been the oldest and not the youngest.

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Note that “redshirting” at kindergarten can also have effects much later. For example, the kid who was “redshirted” at kindergarten may be 18 years old during most or all of his/her senior year in high school. This can have both advantages and disadvantages for both the kid and the parents.

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My DD has a summer birthday and skipped a grade, so will graduate high school at 16. We sometimes tease her that we could have given her “the gift of time,” making her an 8th grader rather than a 10th grader - which is a tease because of how horribly inappropriate that placement would be for her. Everyone (parents, grandparents, friends, teachers) forgets that she’s the youngest in a group; I’ve been known to add as many as two years to her age before catching myself.

I think it’s a mistake to trade in generalities like never regretting holding a kid back.

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My sister teaches 4th grade, so about half her kids are 9, the other half 10. You’d think ‘what’s the big deal?’ but it is surprisingly a big deal. She has a few with discipline issues. If a 9 year old hits or kicks another kid, he is sent to the principal. If a 10 year old does it, the police are called an a report filed with follow up. This is a district rule.

An 18 year old who is caught in a prank in high school may receive a harsher punishment than the 17 year old.

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@ucbalumnus

Right! My wife and I’s most common comment about this (Dec and April birthdates respectively) is that we would have loved to been the oldest in our class when it came time for 21st birthdays!

As it was, as a late April birthday, I was always one of the youngest (Schools in KS where I grew up had Aug 1 cutoffs), though not that I noticed. On the flip side, after undergrad I appreciate being a touch younger when it comes to other life milestones - but that consideration is probably something that is magnified only because of the length of medical training. Getting your first real job at 22 vs 23 isn’t the same as the year difference between 32 and 33 when I got out of fellowship and had a lot more financial obligations…

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Weighing in…

I don’t believe a parent should automatically give their kid an extra year before starting kindergarten just so their kid will be one of the oldest and not one of the youngest.

I do believe for some kids, this is a gift, if they are not ready socially/emotionally. In fact, my brother did this with their son who had a late July birthday. But I don’t think it should be an automatic thing…only if there is a true reason that the child seems not ready and would benefit. Early in my career, I even taught an entire class called “transition class” for kids needing an extra year between K and first grade.

Where my kids grew up, the cut off for K was Sept. 1. It was very common for parents of boys with summer birthdays to wait a year until they were six. We had two girls. My oldest D’s birthday is Aug. 27 and she made the cutoff by five days and went to K. This was right for her. She excelled and was always at the top of the class, fit in socially and emotionally, played three varsity sports in HS, was a leader, graduated as valedictorian and has been successful.

When we went to have a second child, and wanted them two years apart, we aimed for a summer birthday. I was pregnant with a baby due in June but miscarried. At that point, I just got pregnant right away again, knowing the baby would miss the K cut off. My kids are 25 months apart and D2 missed the K cutoff by five weeks. We figured we would cross that bridge when we got to it.

That D was able to start the 3 year old private preschool group with the cohort that would eventually go to K two years later. She was advanced academically and fit in socially and emotionally with this group that was going to head to K when they were five but she’d be shy of 5. Her preschool thought she should go onto K.

To make a very long story a bit shorter, we even moved to the adjoining town to build our new home because that elementary school had a policy where they would examine a child on a case by case basis who missed the cut off for entrance. After we started building the home, the school board revised that policy (several school board members had sons in that D’s cohort who were giving them an extra year before K). Anyway, my D had to go through a lot of testing and the criteria was to be above and beyond the entering K class who would be five when she was still 4. She got in. Like her sister, she was the youngest in her class, with NO problem whatsoever, as she too fit in socially, and emotionally and was a leader. In fact, I forgot to mention that our elementary school had multi-age classrooms and so, for example, grades 1, 2, 3 were in one class and so my daughters were way younger than the majority of the class with no issue, and in fact, it was helpful. The one year it was difficult was grade 6 as they had to be in the upper grade of the multi-age 5-6 class and my kids were very advanced and so there were not enough older kids in that class. For D2, they suggested she skip 6th grade but we felt she already “skipped” with her early entrance into K.

As it turns out, D2 begged us to let her graduate high school after 11th grade at age 16 and she did. This was right for her. She excelled in college and was a leader among older peers, some quite a bit older.

Obviously my daughters bucked the trend to give kids an extra year. And my younger one went further to gain an early entrance into K, as well as an early graduation in high school. Is this right for every kid? Absolutely not. But holding summer babies back before K is not right for EVERY kid either. I feel strongly about individualizing this decision.

As well, my background is in child development (undergraduate) and education (graduate).

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I have two D’s-- the oldest with a January birthday and the youngest with a November birthday. Cut off in our school district is Dec. 31. I knew that both girls were bright and talented, but I did have concerns that younger D would be one of the youngest in her grade–especially since she was very petite.

I brought it up to her 3 year old nursery school teacher and she said there is no way that she should be held back. She said she was one of the smartest, creative kids in the class and ready to learn more. She call her a natural leader and said that she was one of the most empathetic children she had met as a teacher. So I went with it.

As it turned out, both D’s made the gifted program, the Suzuki music program, advanced art, and had the leads in their HS shows. My oldest had more of a type A personality and cared more about grades, while my younger D loved learning but didn’t care very much about grades (as long as she felt smart and stimulated by her classes.) Despite an 8 point grade discrepancy (98 vs 90 gpa–similar SAT’s), both D’s went to NYU–one for music and one for art. And my youngest D completed her master degree in art education while she was still 22. At 23, she is completing her first year teaching.

She still would have been petite if I had held her back the year, and as it turned out, she continued to grow until she was at least 17 and made it to 5’3’. In retrospect, her height would have been a silly reason to hold her back!

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My kids - one of each gender - have summer birthdays in a state with a September cutoff. Both stayed on track and were not held back. K-8, daughter was one of the younger kids with most other younger students being female. Son was often the very youngest boy in his class, often by a couple months as most summer birthday boys were held back. They did more than fine. Top of the class academically (well, at least until they went to a rigorous, selective private high school where everyone came from the top of the heap :wink: ), totally fine socially (the more extroverted one won every student council election entered), the jocky one was a top performer academically as well but not large (other child was into the arts and did well in those pursuits).

I think they would have felt unchallenged if they were held back in their pretty decent public school setting. I think smart kids without adequate challenges risk developing underachiever syndrome. I kind of see that in one of my kids anyway after things come so easily for so many years.

Given your daughter’s young age, I’d take a wait and see approach. You have a couple years to assess what might be better. Do it for academic/social/emotional reasons for her at that stage not for trying to game some long range high school/college strategizing to capture a perceived advantage.

I’d also encourage you to disengage from the conversation or change the topic if you can when hanging out with other parents of such young kids. It bleeds into the way one approaches their kids learning and kids aren’t dumb, they pick up these cues, IMO. That adds a lot of stress to your kiddo’s life if they sense mom and dad are strategizing out 5, 10, 15 years down the road instead of focusing on development in the here and now. Don’t fall into that trap is my advice. Enjoy each stage. Keep things open and nimble and focus on those decisions as they come. I think your instincts per your first post and your way of thinking about them is correct. I think your friends’ views are a lot of BS. I guess I follow more of a Brazelton-ish cild-focused, child-oriented parenting philosophy. Look to your child and follow their cues and your gut on whether you think they are ready or not. I seldom felt that following the herd in parenting decisions was the best way to go for my kids. You’ll honestly never really know if the path chosen or the path not taken is the best so do what YOU think is best and don’t worry too much about planning things out. Just my 2 cents.

" In retrospect, her height would have been a silly reason to hold her back!"

Another parent was surprised back in kindergarten that I didn’t hold my kid back because kiddo was small for their age. My response was kiddo will always be small. Kiddo would just have to get used to it. It is part of who they are.

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This depends upon the individual student.

In major cities, when placing a child in a private school, the competition is intense & the school teachers & administrators are very experienced at evaluating a child’s readiness to enter kindergarten. In the public school system, it is a parental decision.

In our situation, our child had to undergo a multitude of tests, including ono-on-one interview with a certified child psychologist, in order to qualify to apply to any private or parochial school for kindergarten. Additionally, each child had to go through observations at each school to evaluate how the child interacted with other children.

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Public school teachers can be very experienced in evaluating as well. If a public school teacher with years of experience with the given age group has a recommendation, I’d definitely take it into serious consideration. They are probably better judges of appropriate aged based behavior than most parents are of their own kids based solely on how many kids they have dealt with. There are great early ed public school teachers out there. But, yes, the final decision is often the parents’ choice.

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Depends on the kid, but i wouldn’t feel in any way bound to hold back if your kid can cope academically and socially. My twins due date was Jan 4, but they were born very early in mid Nov. They went to kindergarten aged 4 as the youngest in their grade (we had a Dec 2 cutoff in CA back then but now it’s been moved up to September) and have been in class with kids as much as 17-18 months older than them. I’d say more than half of kids with an August birthday are held back, for Sep/Oct/Nov it was more like 70-80%.

It was never an issue academically and socially they have done just fine: S18 is senior class president and was also class president in his graduating middle school class, so it would be hard to say that their peers treat them differently for being younger.

We never really considered holding them back, since in the UK where we grew up that simply isn’t allowed. If we had been in the UK then they would have started school at 4 anyway because there is an extra year of elementary school compared to the US and we didn’t want them to be disadvantaged if we had moved back there at some point. And both of us parents skipped grades in elementary school and ended up going to college at 17.

Our twins will also be going to college at 17, but I don’t see it making a difference. S18 thought seriously about going to an OOS college where he would have wanted to graduate in 3 years to save money, but his age wasn’t a factor in his final decision to stay in CA.

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