No collective advice from school peers and their families. I know that’s not a reliable group but it is always a compelling one for some reason. Wisdom on this board has been more accurate.
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I have gotten so much sound advice from this board.
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I’m sorry you received bad advice from those around you. Recruiting is hard enough when you know what to expect.
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Agree that it can be compelling for some reason. I tend to take what I hear from the general public on athletic recruiting with a grain of salt. Especially when it comes to talk about a scholarship that so and so may have been offered, someone claiming to know some other kids/athletes actual test scores and/or GPA which were not stellar but they somehow go into a very high end school, “if a school really wants you they will find money for you”, etc.
At a ball field once I heard another parent tell me about what one of my kids was being offered for scholarship(s) but it couldn’t be more wrong.
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This Board is way more accurate than what you hear around ballfields, schools or cocktail parties. Most everyone who posts has had first hand experience as a parent with a recruitable kid(s) for Ivy+ and/or academic D3. There is no agenda, just a retelling of their experience. What I found with both of my kids is that you have the following biases when talking with other parents and even coaches:
- Wishful thinking. Parents want to believe their kid has a greater chance than they really do, athletically and academically. Then things look even better as the rumor goes does the “telephone line”.
- Big fish, small pond. Amazing to me how many parents have such an unrealistic view of the athletic capability of their kid. The kid may be one of the stars in their small private school leagues but are overmatched when they go against kids from more competitive backgrounds, and some parents still don’t see it.
- Bragging. Parents will often exaggerate the status of their kids. Anyone who says their kid is getting a full ride in an equivalency sport or any athletic scholarship for an Ivy or most academic D3’s is lying.
- Coaches exaggerating. Paid coaches/travel teams have an incentive to lure you and your kids to pay thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars to get an inside edge in athletic recruiting (and that scholarship which is not worth as much as the parents’ think).
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I also think people don’t UNDERSTAND the system. People outside of a certain bubble are really unfamiliar with Ivy and NESCAC and make a lot of incorrect assumptions. I remember an announcement where everyone was very proud that an international athlete had “received a full athletic scholarship to study medicine and Princeton University.” When athletes receive FA, people, particularly those new to this world, brag and call it a scholarship when it really has nothing to do with it.
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This group has been super good with helping us keep it real, both athletics wise and academically. It’s easy to get sucked into the marketing trap, when coaches are trying to sell their programs hard to keep their pool of recruits interested.
It wasn’t until when my D26 pressed a coach about where she fell on the depth chart and he told her he was submitting 20 pre reads for 5 spots that she realized that there was still a long ways to go before the offer and verbal commitment stage, and when the ED1 acceptance was in hand.
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This is well said and a pretty decent rule of thumb.
I would just add that there are many NESCAC athletes who are more accomplished/talented than their Ivy sport peers. Recruiting can be such that a student-athlete (and the parents) has developed a relationship with the Ivy coach over several years through camps, coaching, and tournaments, and the coach may lean towards the known/familiar. Development $$s, or hoped for ones, can also come into play. We see it all the time.
Our kid recently finished their recruiting journey. They were lucky enough to pass all their pre-reads for a handful of schools, including NESCAC.
The feedback they received was that their rigor was impressive. They’ll be finishing high school with UW 3.9is but will have completed over 2 years of college. We were actually scared that the college classes would be considered less rigorous than APs but in the end it seemed to work out. I’m guessing the writing samples were also taken into account.
Like some others have said, passing a pre-read doesn’t guarantee anything. Some schools completed more pre-reads than they had roster openings. Also learned. from friends, that some schools can sort of do whatever they want (hint: top west coast SLAC).
Lastly, I’d say most kids don’t play D3 because they’re not good enough to play higher divisions. D3 is a choice, whether it’s due to major, study abroad, or just wanting a specific experience. I’ve seen a ton of D1 talent at D3 games.
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It’s kind of understandable. Folks don’t go bragging “we are so low income that Princeton offered significant financial aid for Joey to attend- AND he gets to play his sport! Win/Win!”
Shaving the truth re: aid is a parlor game which nobody wins, unfortunately. Parents of younger kids think little Susie might get a free ride to play golf at Princeton if they can only persuade her to drop Calculus and physics to have more time with her expensive coach. Parents of kids in the same class believe they’ve made horrible life choices by emphasizing academic achievement instead of hours in the training room. And the HS coaches-- some of whom are terrific and have a very balanced view of the kids they coach, and some of whom don’t understand higher ed and don’t care to, and tell every parent that their kid is a superstar.
A game with no winners.
My daughter received offers from colleges in all 3 divisions. She was lucky enough to get to pick the school she liked, with a team that matched her play very well, and the funding I liked. It happened to be D2, but she could have gone to a D1 school (lower playing tier than top D1) or a D3 (she did not like LACs), so it worked out for her.
I agree that for most sports, D1 players aren’t the top, then D2, and then D3. The athlete is often choosing the type of school they want (LAC, flagship, Ivy) and then within that division the team they match up with. Football is an exception where there really is a big difference between a D1 and a D3 school and no one is arguing that Bates can compete with Auburn.
There are certainly athletes that have to follow the money too. Some can’t go to a D3 or Ivy because they need the scholarship money. My daughter really needed to leverage the athletic money. She would have gotten some need based aid at most D3 schools, but probably not enough.
In the event that the referenced family find this, I’m going to delete this.
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I think it’s really important with college plans to maintain (at least) two paths toward success, where each path includes a handful of schools that fit what the student is looking for. The first path can include recruited athletics, where you target schools that you have a chance to play for, and where academics will at least be a good fit. The second path should be academic only, where student pursues best academic fit they can find, without recruited athletics, and depending on sport and major preference, those two paths could be completely independent with entirely different colleges on each path.
For sports that are not ubiquitous, eg, hockey, the sport-school options can be limited. Similarly, not all schools offer all majors, obviously, but often a close analog may be found. In some cases, the same schools can be on both paths.
Ideally, there will be dream schools on both paths, and the student will end up having good or great options on at least one of the paths, and hopefully both.
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That might be true, but might not. As a rising 9th grader it’s early.
Again, too early to know anything for sure. For example, there are many D2 schools that have relatively low academic hurdles that give generous athletic scholarships. And plenty of D3 schools with softball programs that have a relatively low athletic hurdle, although no athletic $ at those.
I do agree recruiting is often challenging, especially if the family needs financial aid and wants a school with a ‘known’ name. See how the next two years go for your niece, both academically and athletically. Good luck to her.
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Deleting
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The two path approach is sound as it best preserves her optionality over time. As she’s only a freshman, there’s plenty of time, and a lot can change between now and application time.
While it’s good to have a roadmap to recruitment at this early stage, the most sound advice we got was to be the best student and the best athlete possible, and then, see what shakes out.
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Sending a hug. It’s tough to keep your mouth shut with a niece/nephew when you think they are setting themselves up for major disappointment. I’ve seen this with the athletes, the musical kids, the theater kids… a student can be THE BEST in his or her town which sets up some expectations- which the big, wide world will quickly shatter…
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Here is a dose of reality as a parent of a Softball recruit who ended up at a NESCAC.
My daughter started 3 years at a public HS in the big school division in a softball hotbed state. We made the state championship her junior year behind the pitching of a girl who was named in one of those Player of the Year awards. I think she received a quarter or maybe a third of a softball scholarship from a D1. I suspect it was also stacked with some FA. She did not make it past freshmen year and was academically ineligible.
My D was All District as infielder. She was not offered by an Ivy, although she was shown some interest. There is no athletic money for D3. Some of my D’s teammates were recruited by jucos and NAIA schools. There were a couple of D2’s. Only 3 girls out of the 8 recruited to the next level both graduated and played all 4 years. The common denominator was they were all strong students with career goals (not just softball) and were “impact” recruits meaning they started from freshman year. The other girls were either not prepared for college and dropped out or they quit because they were not getting playing time.
The best dose of reality to give her and her parents is to sign up for some some big softball camps or showcases. My D went to the Stanford camp her sophomore year. When she came home, she said the girls being looked at by Stanford were way out of her league. Don’t know how competitive your D’s travel team is because I have seen some really tough competition and some not so tough. Travel teams are all over the map and many organizations have multiple levels of teams. The “Red” team plays in Smallville and the “Blacks” play in Vegas.
As a pitcher, she needs to be in the high 50’s, low 60’s even for D3 with good command and at least 3 pitches where the ball moves differently.
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Deleting
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Sometimes having the dream or daydream to work for is more important than reality. Gives them structure and purpose.
Reality- challenge of hs classes, expense, competition, injury- will face your sister/niece soon enough.
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