<p>^I agree. I haven’t met this woman(?) and my child hasn’t been coached, but I don’t believe this would create a huge advantage for anyone. Either you are what they want and need or you aren’t. Valuable clues to what the schools want can be found on CC or in many books.</p>
<p>There should be a like button! Great idea!</p>
<p>Earlier today I posted about my daughter’s experience at Unifieds and her interactions with an MTCA audition coach. I in no way meant to impugn the integrity of the MTCA organization…I have heard nothing but good things about them as a whole from many friends who used their services with great success. My gripe was with the individual. It has been three years but you know how mad you can stay at someone who hurts your kid.</p>
<p>I SERIOUSLY doubt that this is a common occurrence. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is a singular occurrence. While it is definitely suspect I doubt whether it had any bearing on the out come anyway. The audition panel will make their own decisions.</p>
<p>All of you Musical Theater hopefuls and parents, you’re going to have to toughen up. If you continue this journey what are you going to do when you’re in the real world and you’re auditioning against seasoned actors or having to deal with equity/non equity auditions and a plethora of other variables that you’re competing with? Are you going to whine, hold grudges, do an email blitz or work on your skills? I’m just saying…with the posts that I’m seeing it sounds like you need an attitude adjustment or change majors, because a career in the theater is not fair and full of rejections.</p>
<p>Just to clarify - I did not boo or hiss the coach; I said, and I still say, IF there are rules about people going into auditions, the school should not be breaking them for some people and not others. Very cut and dried. Does not matter why the rule is being broken, no matter how innocent it may be. I also did say I have never personally seen any school do that at any of our auditions and I get the impression that the vast majority of schools are VERY consistent and appropriate and professional during auditions. So let’s not exaggerate the reaction here. </p>
<p>I do not see how any of the other factors mention mitigate the fact that it is simply inappropriate to apply rules to some and not to others at a college, whose mission is not the same (or not supposed to be) as that of the professional industry. This does not mean we will be SHOCKED, shocked I TELL YOU!! (lol) when D gets the many, many rejections and runs across the crap she knows awaits her, so, don’t worry, we have gotten that memo already. ;-)</p>
<p>Mom24girls summed it up quite well.</p>
<p>It’s about expectations. I expect some kids will have had been born with more talent, or the look they want, or had better opportunities, and that when they graduate, if they have an uncle who is a casting agent, they’ll have more opportunities: but I would expect schools to run the actual audition fairly, at least at that very moment as Mom24girls points out.</p>
<p>Which once more just for good measure, IMO they do the vast, vast majority of the time. Perhaps that is why this instance is rubbing people so much the wrong way and people who handle rejections with composure and reason are more astonished at this: because, happily, it is in fact so unusual.</p>
<p>I laughed at my wife as she spent hours on CC and now here I am posting away. </p>
<p>I have something else to say about coaches and specifically that certain well known one. We found her through a friend whose son had just gotten into Otterbein and several other well known programs. He raved about her. We knew nothing about MT programs and had no idea what we needed to do to help prepare our son for auditions. We literally turned our son’s training over to her and she worked wonders. She spent Sunday after Sunday working on his acting. His first real acting lessons. She set up master classes and mock auditions. By the time November came around he was ready. Today my son has offers from 6 schools, some of them top programs. He is going to be able follow his dream. His talent earned him the offers, but his coach believed in him and worked with him to bring out his talents. He believes that she is a big part of his success. She did exactly what she said she would do and our family is grateful to her. She was worth every penny that we paid her (considering scholarship offers that we have, she was a great bargain.) Other parents that we have met feel the same way.</p>
<p>So I would say to the parents of any juniors or younger students who read this thread and wonder what to make of it, if you are thinking of hiring a coach you would not make a mistake in hiring the one that I did. I also think that, in general, a coach brings many, many assets to the process that are hard to find elsewhere. MT is a mysterious world. It was very helpful to us to have an expert guide.</p>
<p>Nobody is questioning the value of having a good coach on this thread, SD. Nor anywhere else that I know of, though some people have felt that they were lucky enough to have access to enough other resources that they could be successful without hiring one. But nobody is saying a coach isn’t a good thing to have. We would have been pretty lost without ours. I would recommend that everyone seriously consider if they need one - we absolutely did.</p>
<p>You can surely understand, though, how a waiting room of people who do not also have a warm and grateful relationship with a particular person, would be wondering why it is someone seems to be able to get into rooms that other people aren’t allowed to get into, regardless of reason or outcome, and why in a tense situation such as an audition, that would ruffle some feathers and make them feel like an outsider, and why those people would want those feelings of “huh???” validated.</p>
<p>It might not be of much practical value but I still think it’s a valid reaction, especially from someone who might not be aware that the outcome isn’t actually being influenced.</p>
<p>Also I have always been told that you can’t tell people how they should or should not “feel.” People feel what they feel. That’s not something people can actually control. All they can control is how they act, or react. Therefore, feeling something wasn’t fair is not = to reacting in an immature way and suddenly not putting any more effort into the process. It’s just the emotional reaction, you know? If it’s there, it’s there, and talking or venting about it doesn’t mean someone is going to let it rule their decisions.</p>
<p>Actually, I do not understand. A second hand report about a coach supposedly seeing a dance audition turns into a series of posts about how unfair the audition process is because of the relationship that coaches have to the schools. Let me repeat, one second hand report. Some even suggested sending letters to the schools to protest special treatment. What special treatment? I am still waiting for a someone to explain to me how seeing an dance audition is an advantage. What did she do? Distract them so that they wouldn’t see her student stumble? Tell the student afterward that they were great? Please. If you think that this is the reason that your kid didn’t get in I just don’t see it.</p>
<p>I defend coaches because I think that there is effort underway to tarnish the reputation of one of them and by implication the rest. The fairness of the audition process is also being questioned. All of this on the flimsiest of grounds. I think that threads like this are very confusing to those who haven’t been through the process and are looking to CC to learn. I know that this time of year is stressful, but attacking schools and coaches is very unfair. Students and parents need good information and trust in the system or they will be distracted from the things that really matter, like audition prep. What these kids put themselves through is hard enough. They don’t need to be thinking that the process is rigged and no one here has come close to convincing me that it is. Not by a mile.</p>
<p>I do find it “interesting” that someone new pops up here, starts this thread with less-than-complete information, then disappears. </p>
<p>The OP mentioned ONE school - and not by name - and then a whole series of posts about the entire MT application process gets going. I am on the other side of the process now. My D survivied the craziness of the process - lived through the rejections, celebrated the acceptances and is now very happily training at the program led by the wonderful kjgc (who believe it or not is even more wonderful in real life.)</p>
<p>Were there some “things that make you go hmmmm?” moments along the way? Sure. But overall we felt like it really was all about each program trying to cast the class that was the best fit for them. </p>
<p>If there was an advantage to the coach being in the dance audition I don’t know what it was. But if you as a parent or student feel like there was then by all means express your feelings to that program. You don’t have to audition for that school. You do have many options in this process.</p>
<p>I just wanted to chime in, that my daughter coached with the wonderful MTCA and went to Chicago Unifieds. I cannot stress enough how discreet and respectful of the college audition process these coaches were. They were there for support. A text here or there, or a little pep talk discreetly in a hallway or restroom. They were so considerate of all auditionees and the process. I cannot stress that enough.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is bashing the coach - I wish I used her, I mean, if she has this many connections, I’d be a satisfied customer too! - it’s bashing the schools for allowing her to have so much power. Unless I’ve misunderstood?</p>
<p>No, sassystage, that was the point I was trying to make. I don’t think anyone is bashing the coaches, and I thought I, for one, had made that clear? Did I not?</p>
<p>And yes, austinmtmom, at this point is it an unconfirmed story. (note I used some qualifiers indicating that here and there.) I noticed the absence of the OP poster too…hmmm…have we been ■■■■■■■?</p>
<p>I guess not everyone will always be able to understand what hits other people’s hot buttons. But, if something hits someones button and not yours, it doesn’t mean their feelings on the matter aren’t valid, is my feeling on it. But if you don’t think my feeling on the validity of feelings are valid then - OH HELL it just got circular. Never mind. haha.</p>
<p>At any rate, account of because I don’t like my stance on matters being misunderstood, let me repeat again (signups for redundancy club can be signed up for in the lobby ) - Satisfied Dad, I am NOT bashing coaches. Not that one (but especially not ours of course) And my point was simply that 1. I think it’s improper and unprofessional for a school to apply rules unevenly. If that is not something that bothers you on principle, or if you feel it’s okay to bend rules as long as no harm is actually done, then that’s fine, but in MY opinion, it just is something that looks bad.</p>
<p>And once more - I never, ever saw anything as blatant at that at ANY of our auditions and all the schools we went to were just wonderful. If I had, I might have enquired about it. “HEY! So it’s open to parents now? WOO!” But I never saw anything like that at all. So I’m not bashing schools in general - and certainly would have no reason to bash programs being run by people like kjgc. Why would anyone do that, as she has made it very clear how she runs it and no wonder austinmtmom’s D is happy there.</p>
<p>I simply thought that being inconsistent with favors (IF that is what happened) wasn’t very politic of the school - don’t read more into my posts than that. It LOOKS bad, even if it’s not. I certainly hope nobody is offended by my feeling on that matter or misconstrues it as anger towards them personally, or criticism of any of the wonderful posters here, because it most certainly is not, I have nothing but gratitude for EVERY post and poster in the forum.</p>
<p>Fortunately or unfortunately, as my Jamaican graphic design instructor used to always say, I have to be gone painting prom sets all day so don’t take my further silence on the matter as flouncing off. Carry on. ( ;-)or not)</p>
<p>I agree with the assertation that life and in particular this business is not “fair”, I also vehemently agree that in the educational setting, even the perception of an advantage should be avoided. Of course no school can level the field regarding training, advantages, preparation, but in that room, at that moment, no one should have even a psychological advantage! And you cannot tell me that seeing a friendly, encouraging face is not an advantage! And that is not even accounting for certain kids who would not be above mind games (saying in the waiting area or hallway “My dance coach is in there, he/she watched last month and said it would be a piece of cake for me” ) </p>
<p>You cannot tell me that such mental games cannot play into performance. I agree the kids will have to toughen up, but at 17, just trying to get the opportunity for a fair shake, to receive an education, often at a tax payer supported institution, I feel that no outsiders should be allowed in, no dance coaches, no vocal coaches, no acting coaches, no accompanist! Why should they be?? To what purpose???</p>
<p>snapdragonfly - Just to point out that kjgc is actually a him, not a her. ;)</p>
<p>I keep reading that no one is bashing the coach. Here is a collection of quotes off of the first page full of charges of unethical behavior on the part of the coaches and the schools. Still no proof of any special treatment save one post of one dance audition. Hardly enough to go after people’s reputations. These are real people. Anonymous posting of damaging statements may make you feel better, but it has consequences. I don’t believe that the criticism is substantiated or warranted.</p>
<p>“but is it okay that ONE particular college audition coach is given special treatment”</p>
<p>“but I have heard straight from the mouth of the head of one of the top programs that those audition coaches can hurt a kids’ chances as easily as help them”</p>
<p>“If this becomes all about making a buck for the theater departments or the private coaches, then they should move out of the university setting”</p>
<p>“If college personnel are giving unfair advantages to a private coach, there is an easy thing a parent or student can do – send an email or letter to college officials.”</p>
<p>“The problem is the private coaches who get private access”</p>
<p>“However, this coaching business has been a real eye-opener. And it’s starting to feel like a scam.”</p>
<p>“But permitting some coaches to schmooze and not permittting others, or parents, is totally in their control and I don’t think it’s ethical.”</p>
<p>“If unfair access is given to private coaches, at the very least it has the appearance of school practices that unfairly treat students who cannot afford a private coach and, at the worse, college rules”</p>
<p>Obviously the coach/coaches are being attacked, as well as the schools.</p>
<p>Where are the PERSONAL attacks? I saw only people making statements of “a” coach or “some coach” being allowed into the audition room. And this nice sweet coach who went into the room was WRONG and should have known better.</p>
<p>Allowing anyone into the audition room is inappropriate, period. It’s time for your kid to stand on his or her’s own feet and be judged. The audition is the child’s presentation on their abilities and talent. The coach being there could be construed as an endorsement of the child. So even if the child had a bad audition, the coach was there to make sure the school was aware that the child was one of “hers” and therefore must be good.</p>
<p>Next thing you know they will let a smiling, encouraging grandmother in the room to calm the child’s fears, take the quiver out of her voice and give her the emotional support needed to deliver the monologue. There is no gray area here. </p>
<p>I viewed this post as a topic of discussion about a coach being allowed in an audition room. If a coach was allowed in an audition room, shame on the coach and shame on the school. If not, then this was nothing more then a spirited debate. The coach had ample opportunity to visit with old friends either before or after her student’s audition.</p>
<p>If I were the head of one of these Musical Theatre programs looking for the top 3-5 percent of the talent in the country where would I go? Just like a football coach I would go to where the concentration of talent was. I would go to fine arts programs in large cities, large community theatres that train youth and yes talent pools assembled by coaches. The schools get to scout for talent they want and build their reputation at the same time. The kids get some valuable training. The majority of kids in these summer camps won’t attend the college that sponsors them. The majority of the kids that attend these master classes won’t be picked by the schools. I agree with another post that says exposure works both ways. The school may see what they want for their program or not.</p>
<p>Let’s grow up a little here. This process is VERY stressful. Many people don’t have the outcomes they want and blame the process. Most kids end up at some point during the process getting rejections. I know we did. But to claim the process is unfair seems to me unfounded.</p>
<p>This whole business (and it is a “business”) is a gamble. Kids who want to compete at the top level have to have excellent training, some sort of coaching (whether it is MTCA or not), a certain amount of raw talent and a lot of luck. Same as with any sport or artistic endeavor. </p>
<p>I certaintly don’t think it is appropriate to complain after getting rejections that the whole thing is “unfair.” Of course it is. The poor girl with a consuming passion for all things MT, but without the access to good training is not going to be able to compete at the top level. </p>
<p>Parents need to help their children be very realistic about their level of talent and chances at acceptance. Make sure you have a real mix of schools (including nonaudition). And never let your child talk about a “dream” school. That is just setting them up for disappointment. Rejection hurts, but there is no point in blaming the system. It is what it is!</p>
<p>I don’t think the hot button here is if the process is unfair or not. I don’t think it has anything to do with the value of coaches or the roles they play. This thread seemed to take a specific turn to is it OK to have a coach attend your audition? Some saw nothing wrong with it some were highly offended by it.</p>