<p>Life’s not fair, but I expect institutions which accept monies from Joe Taxpayer to at least attempt some semblance of applying their own rules equally to all of those Joe Taxpayers. </p>
<p>I do think this IS somewhat different, if that is what happened. If I understand it correctly, a school violated it’s own policy, giving capricious and preferential treatment to an individual, and doing that right in the face of the others - that’s just not the same thing as accepting the fact that some kids had a different background than others and that out there in the non taxpayer supported job market, some people have connections that others don’t.</p>
<p>And sometimes you can do something about it. If Rosa Parks had just shrugged and said “life’s not fair” - well, I am not suggesting anyone’s civil rights have been violated here, and I don’t think the world guarantees us fairness, no; but sometimes you accept unfairness and sometimes - you don’t. I don’t think this case was so bad that anyone could be sued for it or anything, but more extreme and egregious examples of institutions being blatantly preferential have sometimes resulted in action.</p>
<p>~just to clarify:
it’s not that some one had a coach and someone else didn’t. It’s that a school chose to break their rules for one coach over other coaches or parents. That is an avoidable choice they made: completely different than the fact that some kids come to them with more training than others, or with or without the “look” they really need to complete their class, or any of the other things nobody can really do anything about. But whether or not they chose to apply their own rules fairly - that’s totally in their control.</p>
<p>I would write a letter of complaint to the school about something that was so blatantly unfair. There could have been a reason for it, but the perception was not a good one and gave all those there a feeling of special privileges for some.</p>
<p>beenthereMT dad, three years ago at NYC Unifieds, an MTCA coach helped run the auditions for the school she attended. I can’t say if she was in the room for the actual audition, but I can tell you she said something extremely negative to my D as she checked in and that she looked at my D’s song and changed the selection of bars she was going to sing. That was unconscionable, but I didn’t know enough to challenge her.</p>
<p>I just don’t understand the outrage over the coach being in the room. Yes, it blatantly showed everyone in the know that the coach had some sort of relationship with the school’s faculty. But that obviously exists whether the coach stayed inside or outside the room…or if the coach never even showed up at the audition. If you believe that the coach’s imput would sway the faculty to accept someone they would not have otherwise admitted, then I believe that the coach could have acheived the same result by just calling their connection…they did not have to be in the room. </p>
<p>So by focusing on the coach being in the room, you are not focusing on the real issue. Auditionees with coaches (or other lessons, classes, pre-college programs, etc.) probably almost always have an advantage. Ultimately it is impossible to separate pure talent from talent/experience. Add connections to the list and things become even more muddled. </p>
<p>So the OP needs to decide to try to use whatever they can within their means to make themselves a stronger candidate. But unfortuately complaining that things are not fair is not going to change anything.</p>
<p>I would also point out that there are advantages to being in the audition room other than just a bump for that particular kid. Getting real time instant feedback on exactly what that school specifically likes and dislikes is a huge advantage that if a school gives it to one coach, parent, or even student, they are really obligated to give it to everyone. I mean really. Connections are one thing. An inside scoop that could be applied evenly all around is another.</p>
<p>Information is power. That coach is getting access to information that others aren’t. Pointing out that it is really not necessary for everyone else to have to meekly put up with this does not mean that suddenly everyone is going to quit practicing their vocals, let their grades slack, cancel their auditions, and lay around on the couch eating Doritos and crying while they watch Glee on YouTube because they feel that life reneged on the whole fairness thing they are QUITE sure they remember being guaranteed. lol. </p>
<p>Also - yes, everyone in that room knows that some people are starting out way ahead of the mark and have connections and others don’t: but having it so rudely thrown in one’s face right there on the site is unnecessarily disheartening and frankly, seems unprofessional to me. </p>
<p>We were treated with flawless courtesy and professionalism at all OUR auditions, thank God, and I do really think from what I hear, that is the cast MOST of the time. As it should be.</p>
<p>lol…same false dichotomy! Really. At least I am consistent, though false. :)</p>
<p>I agree totally that it is rude. I also agree that there can be an advantage gained by the coach by being in the room, but not necessarily to the advantage of the auditionee. If they are a good coach, they probably are already able to assess their student’s strengths and weaknesses on their own. The real advantage is that the coach may get inside info into what each school is specifically looking for. What songs they like/ dislike…little idiosyncatic things that account for personal tastes. However, that will help the next kid they coach, not necessarily the student who just auditioned.</p>
<p>If we really want to talk about unfair - what about performing arts high schools that have college auditions on their own campus and allow juniors to “audition” for college reps? I have always thought that this practice gives these kids a leg up when audition time rolls around. After all, some of the same reps have already seen these kids and given them advice junior year. </p>
<p>I don’t say this just to prolong this discussion, but merely to point out that there is a lot going on that the average joe just isn’t aware of. College auditions are not exactly “fair.” The kids with money, access, and opportunities have an edge before they even arrive at the studio.</p>
<p>snapdragonfly–seriously though, how is it a false dichtomy? Things are not necesarily black and white…and I am not suggesting that the only two alternatives are eating bon-bons and giving up…or trying to change the system by revolution.</p>
<p>What I am saying is that the middle ground is to try to do your personal best and do as much as you can within your means to be as prepared as possible for your audition. Part of being prepared, however, is looking into ways of taking advantage of what is out there and being knowlegeable about how others may be preparing.</p>
<p>So the OP knows that people are using coaches and may have an advantage because of that. They don’t state whether they can afford one or not, but have instead stated that it is an (unfair) advantage–especially when one coach seems to have such a blatant advantage. Yes, all of that is true. But the OP seems to be reconsidering getting involved in the whole process because it isn’t a level playing field. Others have suggested that an e-mail campaign can change things. I disagree with both arguments and find both of them to be unrealistic.</p>
<p>I don’t think someone should give up their dream to be in music theatre because things are not always fair. I also don’t think that an e-mail campaign will really change things. It will just keep things more out of sight. I also don’t think that people who are applying to a school are going to blow the whistle on said school.</p>
<p>So the OP should do their best to prepare–looking into as many opportunites that can give them a leg up—and should ultimately pick the school that seems to them to be the best fit. But something tells me that once a school accepts you, their audtion process begins to look a lot better!</p>
<p>Everyone. As someone who has sat through these auditions. We aren’t as vicious as or as “nit picky” as you might think. No coach is going to get any information that any reasonable person who has been around can’t tell you about the actual audition. All we are looking for is talent. And guess what… we all define that differently. </p>
<p>I can tell you that nobody likes a monologue where the actor is on the phone and other tidbits of information that can easily be gleaned from websites and audition books. But there isn’t one small thing that will write off any student. Simply because all of us know that there are huge inconsistencies in the advice the student has received before the audition. </p>
<p>Coaches cannot know what goes on in the casting sessions. Because we don’t understand it completely ourselves. Once the first lists are put together the rest is as much art and feel and instinct as anything else. </p>
<p>You want one small piece of advice. Be truthful. Be honest. For the most part the schools are trying to do the same thing. This is hard, but it isn’t a game. There are no winners but there are people who will have a rough few weeks. In the end, if you want to train, then train. Getting a BFA isn’t a magic bullet. I taught in a small, unknown BA program for some time. And I have plenty of students who are working - who are making a living - doing theatre. That’s what you want? Then go out and get it. With or without a BFA audition coach.</p>
<p>Skwidjymom: That is unbelievable. When you say ran the audition did you mean organize or actually sit in on the audition and judge?</p>
<p>uskoolfish: Allowing a coach at an audition is cheating. Can you bring in your math tutor what you take a SAT? For a school to let in a coach during that child audition is repugnant. The school AND the coach should be embarrassed. </p>
<p>In closing, I live in a large town where over 150 kids try out for our high school teams. If you are not working out with coaches all year long, the chances of making the team are slim. That is reality because your competition is working their butts off. </p>
<p>The town next to us get about 25 - 30 trying out. In some cases if you show up, you make the team. That’s the best I know how to describe the difference between MT and many other degree programs</p>
<p>I was never commenting on Skwidjymom’s post…I was only commenting on the original posters comments:</p>
<p>“According to one of my friends at her MT audition for one of the top MT programs a popular audition coach was able to sit in and watch the entire dance audition.”</p>
<p>To me this implies that the said coach sat in on the audition, but did not take an active role. If they were able to coach or somehow prompt their student, of course that is cheating.</p>
<p>If someone can explain how the coach can help a person dance at the audition, I will accept the idea that this is “repugnant.” Perhaps it’s odd, perhaps it even smacks of ridiculous, but if you don’t know how to dance or move at the point of the audition nobody can help.</p>
<p>Wow, hot topic! Well, I would suggest that while it’s not possible to help at this one audition while it’s underway, short of whispering to the judges or whatever, she could certainly benefit by watching her client in action. You know, none of us sees our kids at the actual audition. We know they can sing. We know they can dance. We have probably seen that monologue and heard those songs a-zillion times but there is always fine-tuning.That’s her job, right? What about the less known coach who doesn’t get in? The difference, they say, is in the details and if no-one gets in to the audition room that should apply to all. I should think other coaches would be upset. The whole idea of a giant industry built around getting kids into college is just a little disturbing. My daughter wants an education and it’s beginning to smack of a traveling Disney audition. But I guess that’s showbiz!</p>
<p>I don’t say this just to prolong this discussion, but merely to point out that there is a lot going on that the average joe just isn’t aware of. ** Broadway ** auditions are not exactly “fair.” The kids with money, access, and opportunities have an edge before they even arrive at the ** theater. **</p>
<p>Schools want to enroll people who will work when they graduate. That is all they want.</p>
<p>“The whole idea of a giant industry built around getting kids into college is just a little disturbing.”</p>
<p>Agreed! But…</p>
<p>what about SAT tutoring? College essay coaches? College Advisors? Professional tapes for athletes?</p>
<p>The amount people are spend is mind boggling.</p>
<p>I just spent hundreds of dollars to have my younger daughter’s art portfolio photographed. And she is only a junior. We needed to make prints of her current art for a summer art program application. </p>
<p>Btw, this college program is in one of her first choice schools for college. It is run by their full-time art faculty and they will be doing portfolio prep as part of the curriculum. She also took a pre-college class at a highly rated art school in the fall, and ended up getting a letter of recommendation from the school’s former director of admissions.</p>
<p>Will all this put her at an advantage? Not gonna lie…hopefully. I would not want her to get into a college just because I paid money for a pre-college program. But if this gives a school the opportunity to see her talent first hand and know her personality and work haibts, then I do hope that it will give her an edge. </p>
<p>I spent maybe $800 on two portfolio classes. A bargain, considering there are local programs that meet 3 nights a week and cost close to $10,000 a year! And guess what…they have a private portfolio review night at the end of junior year that is attended by reps from all the top schools, offering helpful tips and at times admitting students talent-wise to their programs before their applications are even out to the general public! So musical theatre is not unique.</p>
<p>Why this seems so inappropriate is because there is an assumption that in a judged setting, such as an audition, all of those being judged are playing on an equal field AT THAT MOMENT. Certainly up until that moment nothing is fair or equal. Some kids have better access to help because of where they live, attend school or the economic status and moral support of their parents. Some have more god-given ability. Some are prettier, better under pressure etc. Nor will the results be fair–some deserving kids will not get in because there are simply not enough spaces. </p>
<p>But the moment our kids apply to college and pay the application fee and, in this case, the audition fee, we expect (and deserve) that they will have a chance to present their material in a manner that is fair and that they will be given that same consideration that any other candidate is given. Having a special “coach” or allowing personal accompaniment is unfair unless all are permitted to have their special “coach” or accompanist with them. Furthermore, having a coach there to observe or anyone who is not part of the university smacks of the appearance of impropriety even if what happened is not in fact improper. </p>
<p>Fairness is a process, not a result. The kids deserve to have a fair process and the universities have a responsibility to ensure that to be so. These are not professional auditions where the kid is up for a job. These auditions are part of an evaluation to enter a university for an education. The argument that this is an unfair business hold no weight. Ethics are not about the way things are, they are about the way things ought to be.</p>
<p>I am amazed that people have gotten so worked up over this. </p>
<p>Reading over this thread I have learned that a friend of dino2016MT told her that a popular audition coach was able to sit in and watch the entire dance audition at a top MT school. The friend thought that this was unfair because her high school teacher was not allowed to watch the audition. We are not told if the teacher asked to watch and was turned down, information that I would find helpful. We don’t know anything. Then we are told that this same coach (boo, hiss) was at a masterclass at a performing arts HS with the head of a top MT program and actually had her picture taken with the participants. The audacity of that woman. I am still trying to understand what is unfair.</p>
<p>From there we have a stream of posts talking about how unfair the process is and how the schools are letting kids with connections into their programs over more qualified kids without connections. No one with real knowledge about how things work, but plenty of accusations. Also that summer camps and coaches give an unfair advantage. An advantage? Probably. Unfair? Why? I didn’t see anyone say that their kid’s voice lessons, dance lessons, SAT prep, private schools/ suburban schools give them an unfair advantage. Or how about kids who live in cities that have an active theater scene or who have parents who started them dancing early. No, it is just those coaches.</p>
<p>Finally a ray of sunshine with the post by kjgc (followed by more), an insider, who tells us that coaches don’t really influence the process. I don’t understand why that didn’t stop the thread. People should go back and read it again. I can’t for the life of me understand why a director of a program would choose a kid with less talent over a more talented kid because of a coach. Can you? They see 500, 600 kids and have to pick 10-20 to spend 4 intimate years with. Their reputation and ethics on the line, but they let the coach tell them who to pick. Sounds to me like a good way to lose your job.</p>
<p>At most, other than training and audition selections, these coaches might help connect your kids to a few of the people who teach at MT programs. If you are lucky maybe they fall in love with your kid and remember them at audition time. Does that access help? Who knows. Maybe the more they see a kid the less they like them. The kids have to sell themselves. People like to work with people that they like. Access doesn’t make them like a kid.</p>
<p>For a post supposedly about fairness I think that that a certain well known coach has not been treated with such. I have met her. She is warm and caring and deserves better than the rumor mongering and unfounded accusations that have characterized much of this thread.</p>
<p>Has anyone stated which school allowed the coach into the auditions? Is it possible the coach was there to do research for a book? Was he/she there for multiple students and at more than one school? I’m just curious how often this actually occurs and if it involves more than one coach. Maybe it was an isolated incident.</p>
and I don’t think the world guarantees us fairness, no; but sometimes you accept unfairness and sometimes - you don’t. I don’t think this case was so bad that anyone could be sued for it or anything, but more extreme and egregious examples of institutions being blatantly preferential have sometimes resulted in action.</p>