Just because he has answered the question(s) doesn’t mean he actually answered them completely or truthfully. Sometimes there is a hint that something is not right when everything taken together doesn’t add up or when something that should be able to be verified can’t be. Thus, more or repeated questions.
I know of a case where a debtor answered repeatedly that he had an annuity for several hundred thousand dollars that would serve as collateral for his obligations. Despite repeated requests, court orders, assurances to his various attorneys, which they passed on to the bank’s attorney, they never produced a copy of the annuity. The debtor would say which company it was with, it’s value, etc. but his various attorneys would never produce a copy. There was never an actual refusal, mind you, just stonewalling in producing it when asked. But he relied upon its existence in court to get his requests for time and release of other monies.
Finally, the bank attorney got enough identifying information about the annuity to go straight to the annuity company to request a copy. No annuity existed—the debtor had gone so far as to fake e-mails between himself and the annuity company, create false financing reports, and otherwise cover his bald-faced lies to financial institutions, not to mention in court testimony and court pleadings.
It took the bank’s attorney quite a while to suss it all out—and yes, that entailed a lot of asking the same questions over and over and over again. FBI now has the debtor in its sites and he’s in deep trouble.
One of my sons friends parents are going through a nasty divorce. Started out amicable then all of a sudden she is going after everything he has. Doesn’t care if it bankrupts him (and her too since she doesn’t work). It has gotten so bad that the mom will not even help her college son when he needs a ride home from school during breaks. This son (DS friend) has apparently made the unfortunate decision (in her mind, we assume) to still be friendly with the dad so she won’t do anything for him. The other two kids affected by this: 19 year old daughter has mom’s side- everything is dad’s fault. Oldest son is ambivalent and not taking sides. All kids are 19 years and older.
From what I can tell (we are not that friendly, we love DS’ friend but don’t know the parents other than to say the mom is really flaky), the crap hit the fan when the soon to be ex-husband let his soon to be ex-wife know that he has a girlfriend. When wife found out, she started demanding everything. Even though the husband did not have the girlfriend while him/wife were still together.
I don’'t care how they settle the end of their marriage. what makes me mad is the way she is treating her son. He had asked her 3 weeks before school was out if she could pick him up and bring him home. Her answer was um sorry I’m busy, can’t do it. This was before he even told her the date he needed a ride. The only reason he needs a ride is that she won’t let him take the spare car to school, then complains about him not getting a job at school to “do more”. Argh.
Oh well, she will find out what she’s lost when this is over. He has already decided that he is done with her. It is very sad. This is one of the reasons why I tell my husband- it’s death (his) or nothing…
It is often the case that one party doesn’t want to be divorced and uses the proceedings as a way to contact the other party - mediations, hearings, transferring the children back and forth. If the mother can demand the father pick up the children at camp, then she knows he’s not off with someone else. If the father refuses to fund the mother’s college degree, he can control where she is at night.
I had a client who just wanted to see her ex, so she fought about everything. I finally told her she lost and there was nothing more I could do for her. She was just lonely and he was all she had.
In most states aren’t the distribution of assets, child support and alimony dictated by some formula that was set by statute of some kind. Ultimately no matter how hard you fight you can only tweak that formula slightly?
Of course as mentioned hidden assets are an entire different story.
Tom, yes, I agree with you. But I was in court when the man presented a list of all the assets, including Oriental rugs, which where copies. One example. He was charging all his business expenses to family credit card, and put reimbursements into a private account. It is amazing the lengths and years that some people will go to in order to preserve their finances.
In NJ the court has to send the tax department a report whenever these types of issues come up. I get a few of these every month where there is testimony about hidden income etc.
They fight over who gets the assets, not just money. In my client’s case, the parties had agreed that whoever got the house also got the dogs and the piano (I was not her attorney at the time). There really wasn’t much money, the wife didn’t have a high paying job, so the judge gave the house and the debt to the husband who had a slightly better chance at keeping the house. They were really her dogs, as evidenced by the gift cards that came with them, so then the wife wanted them. Husband wanted them. No one really cared about the piano.
You’d be amazed at the possessions people fight over, and not just granny’s silver or the family farm. Vacuum cleaners, kids bikes (which they will grow out of before the fight is over), the time share no one really wants, photo albums that could be duplicated for less than the lawyers cost.
I have seen horror stories when the wife wants to keep the house. More times than I care to count the wife takes the house even though their is a judgment on the husband. In the divorce decree the husband agrees to sign the house over and states he will be responsible for the judgment.
Problem is the creditors are not party to the agreement so since the deadbeat husband does not pay off the judgment the wife either cannot refinance or if she sells she has to pay the debt.
In many states if you discover fraud that occured during the divorce, you can have the divorce reopened and have the fraudulently omitted assets redistributed (and the judge usually doesn’t look to kindly on the party who hid the asset.)
Yes, frequent flyer miles are an asset - in some cases a fairly valuable asset.
Yes, often times the “family home” is held on to when in reality neither party can afford to stay in the home. It is an emotional decision rather than an ideal fiscal decision - it happens very frequently when there are kids who have grown up in that house.
Divorce can be horrible, expensive, nasty and long. OR it can be fair, honest and short. It is almost always painful. It is up to the parties and how willing they are to put the past behind them and craft a fair distribution of the marital assets.
Since in post #1, I mentioned “2002, how long was he having an affair” and dstark didn’t later post anything that indicates that the GF came after the separation, I’m guessing that the GF existed for awhile…otherwise, I think dstark would have clarified all of our posts.
@dstark has likely heard only one side, the side of his friend with the GF . I’m sure that @dstark is smart enough to realize that his friend is coloring the story in a way that downplays his cheating, downplays the money that went to “other woman/women”, etc. lol
After all, does anyone know of a cheating husband, who spent “family money” on his girlfriend(s), and is looking for sympathy…and does so by telling his friends the whole truth?
And busdriver is right. In these situations, we typically hear the cheater claiming "my spouse is crazy, " and other deflections…anything to get the spotlight off of their cheating.
Anyone who has heard these kinds of stories usually later finds out that there is a lot more to the story. People usually are NOT aware of the “uglier side” of their friends because their friends have no reason to exhibit or target any of the ugliness towards them. Obviously, we don’t know this H, but if he’s been cheating for a LONG time, then likely he has his own “ugly issues,” but likely his friends would not have been exposed to them.
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In my experience is it never REALLY about the money. It is about what the money represents. And it is about the history of the marriage. >>>
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Absolutely. I don’t know if this wife has another source of income or what, but she sounds determined to make sure that her H not have enough money to “be attractive” to the GF…or at a minimum, that the new couple will have to struggle.
The same friend I mentioned above whose H spent $60K on whores endured her parents’ divorce while in college. Her father refused to continue to pay for her education because she refused to testify against her mother, who was mentally fragile, in the proceedings.
I remember the father’s GF sending her a note on a card with pink poodles suggesting that she send him a birthday card.
I don’t know that it is “never really about the money”. Maybe in some high income circles. In the cases I know, it is about being able to retire someday, about affording college for offspring, being able to own a home again. There is the hurt of the affairs, the nastiness, the promises broken. And then there is the descent from a two income lifestyle to a far more sparse single income and taking your kids’ lifestyle down in the process. I’d say it is very much about the money. Money for some is very tied to power.
Tom, you mentioned the community property states which ostensibly make things more cut and dried. Extenuating circumstances can always become issues. Is the other parent sufficiently present and involved to be there for the 50% placement? Is one parent alcoholic? There is child support, but then who pays for the violin lessons, the summer camp that one parent thinks is non essential?
My divorce was decades ago. Some attorneys in our town had a business assisting with do it yourself divorce, so for a smaller sum, they provided paperwork, instruction, and a few sessions of help. Very much worthwhile. Though there tends to be a community chorus at times, “get what you deserve”, involving a legal battle that is hard to resist. We chose to make it simple, and I knew part of what I was choosing was to get along with each other while the kids were young. I may have given up money. I know he was a devious creature, hiding his affair, and who knows what else. I chose face value, a little more time with my kids and relative peace. I had enough to raise my kids and keep my house. I tried to keep the perspective that we had a working, if tense business relationship bringing up our kids, and any emotional issues were to be worked out with a therapist or friends. It was a rocky ride, but we made through many years of 1 on 1 negotiation, though the fates have not been kind to him.
