@dstark , I’m sure you are smart enough to figure this out, so this is just a caution.
If your friend is confiding in you about his situation and his case, it is quite possible that you might be called as a witness. Anything that your friend tells you may be deemed an “admission” and if the wife or her attorneys are aware of your close friendship, you might be put in the hot seat.
Some years ago, my father was called as a witness in a contentious divorce case because he was a confidant of the husband. He was very unhappy to have to answer questions about his friend as he had been a friend of long standing to the husband and knew the wife more casually. She, of course, knew that my father had been a close friend of her spouse for decades and probably would know where all the bodies were buried (and money, if applicable). As it turned out, she was the cheating party but he had deep pockets. He is a physician and had family money from Asia. This was in CA.
“I often wonder about those situations. Some people think very short-term. I can’t imagine not supporting my kids. I can’t imagine growing old and having lost my relationship with them because I had abandoned them”
I know. It is mind blowing. There is nothing more important than your children. Nothing. I realize that things sometimes get ugly in divorces, but I cannot comprehend this. I love my kids so much, I would kill and die for them, without a second thought, and I know that my husband would too. No matter what.
Luckily, so far here, dstark has not admitted to us about to the guy having a mistress. It is only that dstark brought up the allegation, then refused to deny it. We can only speculate.
As for the evolutionary impulse, if a man has a younger GF, he can afford to throw away the first set of kids on the assumptions that he can make some new ones with a younger woman.
I still think this was a great thread about what the OP implied vs what was inferred by those who commented. Of course dstark won’t help end the speculation.
Yes, and that may also motivate Wife #1 to be more aggressive about fighting for more money. Too many women have seen Family #1 suffer at the expense of Family #2.
When a woman gets to be in her 40s and 50s, and the possibility that her H may abandon the family and start a new one with Young Twenty-something, there’s going to be a LOT of motivation to make his life miserable.
Anyway, now that we can guess that dstark’s very affluent friend has been misbehaving all the way back to 2002, no wonder why the wife is wondering about a certain expense of 13 years ago. When you consider restaurants, hotels, birthday gifts, valentine’s day, and other gifting occasions, there could have been hundreds of thousands spent on this GF.
I imagine that the forensic accountant has gotten all the credit card statements from CCs that this guy was using and has gone over them with a fine-tooth comb. Every restaurant, hotel, airline tix, jewelry purchase is being analyzed. Every bank withdrawal, ATM withdrawal is being looked at as well.
I think her atty would have long shut her down if there was no smoking gun.
I know a woman whose H is alcoholic. She filed for divorce after he refused to get help. He owes a LOT of money to IRS, state tax dept and wife and kids. He also owes her atty fees. He hasn’t paid a dime and can’t be garnisheed because he is running his professional practice.
His kids won’t speak to him or see him. He owes his ex close to 6 figures and she lives paycheck to paycheck, working 7 days/week running a food truck.
In the meantime, he’s had a baby with a woman younger than his kids and the woman has had a 2nd baby. Paternity tests have been conducted to see which of the three males is daddy of baby #2. You can’t make this stuff up!
@mom2collegekids, or it could be as simple as he wants a divorce. Now the wife and all those around her believe there must be a GF so the wife is doing everything possible to find the evidence to prove her point. There will be no evidence that will convince the wife otherwise. As has been discussed, people aren’t always rational during a divorce.
I’m curious and very rusty on civil procedure. How far back CAN a party demand records during discovery in divorce proceedings (which I assume are governed by the same rules of civil procedure).
IOW, who the heck keeps credit card statements for 10+ years. I get rid of unnecessary documents in accordance with tax document retention guidelines and, then, keep only the financial records that are necessary or useful.
I doubt very much that CC companies retain customer records past any regulatory requirements.
If the truthful answer to the question is “To the best of my recollection, I do not know” – one can say that.
@dadoftwingirls I agree that people aren’t always rational during a divorce. And those who are already mentally-weak or mentally-unhealthy will almost surely be irrational.
But, I think it’s safe to say that if this was a simple case of one innocent spouse wanting out, then from the get-go, dstark would included that pertinent fact…“there’s been no affair, and he was a loyal husband, but he and his wife have been growing apart for many years now.”
there’s a reason why the wife is going back to 2002. If she’d hit a brick wall with everything in recent years, then questioning some odd stray no-one-remembers-purchase from 13 years ago, would likely mean that her atty would have declined to put that in a deposition.
We like to joke about atty’s being money grubbing, but this couples’ separate attys are likely too successful to waste time on wild goose chases.
I keep tax returns forever (well, 30 years worth) and supporting documents for 7 years. The rest are shredded and thrown out after I have made whatever note of them I need to. I long ago decided I have no need to keep CC statements unless they relate to business or taxes. They might make some interesting reading and uncover (hypothetically) an illicit visit to the Waldorf Astoria 12 years ago, but they no longer exist. The same goes for bank statements.
Dstark real question dealt with when should discovery end in a divorce and what was the purpose of asking questions again if they had been previously answered as this would use up the family funds.
He got two answers which he believed answered the question: the wife doesn’t want the GF to get any of the funds so use the funds up now and the other was to fully participate in the discovery so it doesn’t appear you are hiding anything.
The GF issue isn’t an important fact to dstark and this why he didn’t answer the question. Here is my reasoning, “there isn’t a GF, but he sees the wife using up funds looking for something that never happened while money is going down the drain.” Of course this my speculation.
In response to mom2collegekids
“I often wonder about those situations. Some people think very short-term. I can’t imagine not supporting my kids. I can’t imagine growing old and having lost my relationship with them because I had abandoned them. I also wonder about these people’s extended families. Do their relatives act like everything is hunky-dory when their relative has abandoned his/her children? I can’t be friendly to people who’ve abandoned their children. To me, it’s along the lines of cruelty to animals.”
In this case paternal grandparents have never acknowledged the grandchildren. (actually entire paternal family)
Father remarried and now has two very young kids. Usually that parent tells everyone willing to listen I am dying to see and do for my children but my ex doesn’t let me. When reality is they have no desire to see or do anything. But kids understand when words don’t match actions. Especially when that parent hasn’t seen them in years and that parent doesn’t feel a responsibility for them. And considers providing health insurance is a child acting entitled since child is above 18 and no more child support is provided.
My feeling is we work hard to provide best for our kids and most people wouldn’t think of turning away from their own children. That would be very selfish.
The legal battle will make any sane person insane or mentally disturbed. No matter what the ultimate winners are the attorneys.
Yes, women are physiologically limited in the number of children whom they can have. Men, if they have access to enough women, can have a far greater number of children, although each one individually has a lower chance of survival to adulthood and parenthood if he does not support them. A very wealthy and powerful man in a society where polygyny is socially acceptable may be able to support multiple wives willing to bear his children – he may be able to provide each wife and her kids with greater resources than a faithfully monogamous but poorer husband can.
This thread is just painful to read right now. Your stories show that people can do some crazy stuff. I’m going thru a divorce and I can attest as a reminder you never ever know what goes on in another’s marriage. Ours is simple. Not a lot of complicated assets and we both want to stay friends on the other side. Our kids are in and out of college and I cannot imagine doing anything to alienate them. His family is still my family and same goes for mine. This is still an emotional time and I cannot imagine making it more difficult.
Oh good grief. Obviously there’s a GF and dstark decided that he had said more than he should have.
And I’m not sure what the physicality of keeping credit card statements has to do with anything. Just because I don’t have a physical copy of my credit card statement from 2002 doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. The issuing credit card company obviously has a copy. Someone just needs to request it. Wouldn’t that be one of the very basics that a forensic accountant would do?
@rom828 - I’m so sorry for all the stress you’re going through. There are decent divorces out there although probably not any painless ones. My sister was helped by the book “Spriritual Divorce” by Debbie Ford. Good for you for trying to stay friends.
There isn’t always a GF. In my sister’s case her ex wanted, “peace and quiet.” He has since married twice, both times to women his age who had never been married and no children of their own. The first one died shortly after they were married from melanoma (it’s amazing what you can find out just by googling) and then just a month ago. Younger D was invited (they are trying to establish a new relationship) but he told her she couldn’t bring her boyfriend. She was very disappointed but went anyway. When she showed up at wedding the brides nieces and nephews all came with a date. She was furious.
As for distribution of assets it depends on the state. NY, for instance, is an equitable distribution state - but that doesn’t mean equal. My sister got everything - the house, including the equity, alimony for six years even after she remarried, a very large lump sum settlement and he has to maintain a $1M life insurance policy with her as beneficiary. He got all their debt, CC bills, mortgage and was ordered to pay both kids college (she didn’t have to contribute at all) and all her attorney’s fees.
The judge hated him for being a pig from the get go. At one point she had guards ready to take him to Rikers (they were literally in the courtroom) after my sister had to take him to court when he didn’t do something he was ordered to do. The Judge also told him if he didn’t settle she was going to award my sister enhanced earnings. So after 5 years he finally agreed to settle. He brought all of this on himself. If he had been reasonable in the beginning things would have been much different. But he wasn’t so my sister hired one of the best divorce attorneys in NYC and they took him to court.