<p>Hulk Hogan is white. And, yeah the evidence is that he ran through bullets. Until the fatal bullet.</p>
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<p>First, it wasn’t 8-10 feet. It was 150 feet.</p>
<p>Second, Wilson did not fatally shoot Brown during the life and death struggle at the car. Wilson fatally shot Brown when Brown was 150 feet away, and – as Wilson well knew – did not have a gun.</p>
<p>@marie Yeah, that was my point. I was being facetious.</p>
<p>First, it wasn’t 8-10 feet. It was 150 feet.</p>
<p>This is incorrect. We need to start with the same set of facts. And, he wasn’t worried about him having a gun he was worried about him tackling him and knocking him over. That’s how charging would likely end if it was successful. </p>
<p>[Racial</a> Profiling in Action](<a href=“Police Detain Man for Walking With Hands In Pockets While it Snows On Thanksgiving - YouTube”>Police Detain Man for Walking With Hands In Pockets While it Snows On Thanksgiving - YouTube): Police stop a black guy for walking with his hands in his pockets, on a day where the high temperature was 33 degrees. Walking with hands in pockets while black is apparently cause for detention by a policeman. What was the crime he was suspected of, I wonder? Having cold hands on a snowy day and being black?</p>
<p>Why are we not seeing video of cops stopping white guys for walking with their hands in their pockets? Why are we not seeing video of cops responding to calls about white 12-year-old boys with toy guns by shooting the boys before fully exiting the squad car? Why are we not seeing video of cop liars in routine traffic stops shooting white guys for reaching for their license?</p>
<p>We have video now. But these police abuses have been happening all along, cops have been lying about them all along, and black people know it.</p>
<p>"Pizzagirl mentioned the “upstanding young black men of Ferguson” who would never rob a convenience store. Well, those upstanding young black men are still being racially profiled, every day. They are still treated as dangerous, threatened, wrongly accused, stopped for no reason, etc. That is not okay. "</p>
<p>I am tired of saying the same thing over and over again. No one is saying that it is ok to treat black men who are going about their business as being dangerous, wrongly accusing them, stopping them for no reason. NO ONE. But THIS IS NOT THE CASE. And just because Michael Brown was black, doesn’t make him representative of the “good” law-abiding black people who indeed <em>shouldn’t</em> be stopped or targeted as they simply go about their day. He is, instead, more representative of the type of criminal who ruins perfectly good neighborhoods for the rest of us, white, black or purple.</p>
<p>:Police stop a black guy for walking with his hands in his pockets, on a day where the high temperature was 33 degrees. Walking with hands in pockets while black is apparently cause for detention by a policeman. What was the crime he was suspected of, I wonder? Having cold hands on a snowy day and being black?"</p>
<p>Those cases were not the case that was brought before the Clayton courthouse last week. The Brown case was. It needs to be discussed on its own merits.</p>
<p>I swear, the logic here seems to be – because some white cops do bad things to innocent black people (a truth), and that should be investigated and dealt with, any time a white cop does something bad to any black person it must be excused away and couldn’t have possibly have had any cause. Even if there were a video of Michael Brown saying to Darren Wilson “I’m going to kill you,” it wouldn’t be enough for some of you, who are bound and determined to lay on Michael Brown all of the cases where law-abiding black people got unfairly targeted. He wasn’t unfairly targeted. He was a thug who went for a police officer’s gun. It’s an insult to the TRUE stories (like the man walking with hands in his pockets on a cold day, like the kid who was shot when reaching for his driver’s license / registration) to classify a thug like Michael Brown in with them. </p>
<p>“The only reason he’s not in jail now is because a dashboard camera film, which had been initially suppressed, finally came to light.”</p>
<p>Funny how that always seems to be the case when a video is uncovered. </p>
<p>“We have video now. But these police abuses have been happening all along, cops have been lying about them all along, and black people know it.”</p>
<p>What is so difficult about believing both that a) cops unfairly treat black people and b) in this case, Wilson was justified for using force against an attacker who grabbed for his gun?</p>
<p>You people would have a point if indeed, Brown was just a guy walking down the street and Wilson just pulled out his gun and shot him. </p>
<p>“You didn’t answer the question, unless you’re saying that “arrogance” is not only a death-penalty offense, but it is so heinous that we can simply dispense with the legal niceties, like a trial.”</p>
<p>I think that is exactly what is being said. </p>
<p>“I’d still really like to hear whether you think that black people are inherently more violence-prone than other races.”</p>
<p>It’s certainly proven that people who are of lower socioeconomic status, who have less money, who are in poverty, are more likely to commit violent crimes. Not because of anything “inherent” in their genetic makeup, but because that’s what poor people do in attempts to not stay poor. </p>
<p>“I disagree with you about lack of father figures being the proximate cause here, but we won’t get into that now. But the point is, when you say “Do you think that the murder/violence rate of young black men may be why some police officers consider a young black man as a particular danger?” you are in essence saying that police officers are justified in profiling young black men and assuming they’re all dangerous. Don’t you see how that forces young black men into a situation where no matter what they do, they suffer?”</p>
<p>I think that police officers who are often dealing with crimes committed by young black men…may be particularly suspicious of young black men. If they were dealing with mostly elderly ladies commiting violent felonies, they would be particularly suspicious of elderly ladies. Violent young black men who commit crimes are the ones making it difficult for other young black men. It is very sad that innocent people pay for the actions of others. I don’t think that police officers are particularly racist, but I do think they profile. St Louis is one of the most violent cities in America.</p>
<p>I don’t know that I would say that profiling is justified (certainly harrassing is not), but it is rational. I, in particular, very much enjoy talking to people of color. Men and women are particularly friendly to me, I’m not sure why, but I suppose the fact that I am often smiling and striking up a conversation or saying a few words, makes people feel comfortable. But if I’m walking around by myself going to a restaurant somewhere at night, I’m not chatting with any young men. I feel it is rational to be cautious, but I’ll happily chat with senior citizens. Is that unfairly profiling people?</p>
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<p>What is so difficult about believing that cops sometimes lie? Moreover, what is so difficult about believing that cops sometimes shoot black men unjustifiably? </p>
<p>What is so difficult about believing that because cops sometimes lie, and sometimes are trigger-happy when shooting black people, and witnesses in this case tell contradictory stories, and the initial police investigation was utterly incompetent, that an adversarial court proceeding would be a good way to get toward the truth? </p>
<p>A “prosecutor” who is already sure that the cop was justified before he looks at any of the evidence is not the best guy to get to the truth. Look at the transcripts-- every time someone challenges the cop’s narrative he questions them sharply, and when someone agrees with the cops narrative he doesn’t.</p>
<p>McCullough pretends that the grand jury was even-handed. This is absolute nonsense, and its nonsensicality is demonstrated by McCullough’s passionate 20 minute speech for the defense at the press conference. Does anyone doubt that a different prosecutor, using the same evidence, could have made a 20 minute case for the prosecution?</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl, I’m not misunderstanding you – I know you want to only talk about the specifics of the Michael Brown case. I don’t. I want to talk about wider societal issues. If you don’t want to do that, fine, but I am not misrepresenting you. I read your earlier posts where you said that the other cases were horrific, etc. I only pulled out your comment on the “upstanding” other young men in order to point out that they, too, are affected by the culture of racial stereotyping we have – it doesn’t only affect Michael Brown. </p>
<p>No one in this thread has said that cops never lie or shoot people unjustifiable we are saying there is no proof this is one of those cases no matter how hard you try to make it one.</p>
<p>There’s no PROOF that Wilson was justified, and no PROOF that he was unjustified. No matter what you say.</p>
<p>Which is why we ought to have a jury trial.</p>
<p>“Which is why we ought to have a jury trial.”</p>
<p>Exactly. </p>
<p>So what should be done to him? You seem to want to paint all police officers with a broad brush in the same manner you claim they treat AA males. I think that is hypocritical. All situations should be based on their own merits.</p>
<p>"I think that police officers who are often dealing with crimes committed by young black men…may be particularly suspicious of young black men. If they were dealing with mostly elderly ladies commiting violent felonies, they would be particularly suspicious of elderly ladies. Violent young black men who commit crimes are the ones making it difficult for other young black men. "</p>
<p>Let’s get right to it. My family used to live within walking distance of the Clayton courthouse. I wouldn’t have thought twice about my two kids walking around most parts of Clayton by themselves. I would not have wanted my kids going to Ferguson (before these events) unless there was a terribly compelling reason to do so. Is that racist of me? I also don’t want my kids hanging around Chicago’s west side either. </p>