<p>It’s just a suggestion if several conversations are going at once. I didn’t start the thread, so it’s not something I’m pushing for. It’s just hard to find posts when the thread gets long. </p>
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<p>OK. </p>
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<p>I heard that this was corroborated by Brown’s friend, the one to whom Brown handed the cigars, I haven’t seen the testimony myself.</p>
<p>So we have a guy selling illegal cigarettes who is taken down in an illegal choke hold, a 12 year old with a toy gun shot after police have been on the scene less than 2 seconds, a man holding a toy gun in Walmart shot in the back, and a SC man complying with the officer’s instruction to get his drivers license getting shot without warning. </p>
<p>So here’s the problem I see for the future: at what point is a black man resisting arrest, and at what point is the black man’s struggle a case of self defense? They seem to get killed no matter what they do. </p>
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<p>NOW do you get it? No indictment for Wilson, OK maybe. But, no indictment for the Garner killer? And I don’t forsee an indictment for the cop who killed the Cleveland child. The cop who killed the guy in the Walmart who had picked up a BB gun from the shelf where guns are stored is also getting off. And how about the cop who shot the black guy getting his license out of the car-- no jail time for him either, right?</p>
<p>It seems like the only thing cops can think of to do with a black male who is suspected (not guilty, but suspected) of a crime, however minor, is to shoot him. And they always, always, always get off.</p>
<p>And I want to point something else out about the Garner/Staten Island case, the Cleveland boy case, the Walmart BB gun case and the guy following the directions to get his license-- those are the ones where we have video. In most cases, we don’t have video: we just have an officer saying earnestly that he had to shoot in self-defense, and for some unknown reason, we believe the cop.</p>
<p>Yep. That guy who was accosted by police because he was walking on a cold day with his hands in his pockets is damn lucky he’s still alive. </p>
<p>Cardinal Fang, I have ALWAYS got it. I have a diverse family, live in a diverse community and sent some of my kids to inner city public schools. We are not college educated people. I probably get it on a personal level more than most people here. If there is trouble, my husband and future so -in-law will be in the thick of it. The helicopters are swarming over my house. I live on the same side of the Island where this occurred. Any trouble will impact me personally. This possibility never crossed my mind because, frankly, how could it?</p>
<p>Not only did you have video in the Staten Island/Eric Garner case - you had a medical examiner ruling that the cause of death was homicide via an illegal choke hold.</p>
<p>I get it as well. Still, I try to look at the whole picture. To me, there was evidence in the Ferguson case that supported Wilson’s claim of self defense. In the Staten Island case, it looks to me like there is evidence to indict the policeman. </p>
<p>Please don’t assume that agreeing on different sides in different cases means that shooting an innocent person is OK. </p>
<p>I don’t know all the details of the other cases, but reading about them just makes me sick to my stomach. </p>
<p>This is incomprehensible, and so sad, and so frustrating, and so incredibly wrong.</p>
<p>Zoosermom- I am hoping that you and your family stay safe. </p>
<p>Thank you pennylane! The police presence is huge. I have a gut feeling that if there are problems, they will be in manhattan because it is so inconvenient to get here. However my husband works nights in the exact area where the death occurred, so I am concerned.</p>
<p>stay safe.</p>
<p>I think the answer to many of these tragedies is phasers. Really, I’m not joking. Many of the ideas in Star Trek decades ago have become reality. Phasers set to stun would be perfect for the situations where they need to stop someone immediately but not harm them. Cops should be able to have an effective, reliable, non lethal weapon to use. Why has someone not invented that yet? Apparently stun guns have issues, don’t work on everyone, and can kill some people. Though I’d rather the police use that than guns, unless they were certain there was no other choice.</p>
<p>I think what people can do, particularly young black men, is realize that they are viewed as a threat. In this era of school and public random shootings in a crowd, police are wired to take someone down first and ask questions later, though the majority of those aggressors tend to be young white men. Don’t even carry around a toy gun, particularly a black one that looks real. The only guns my kids ever had were brightly colored water pistols. Be very passive to the police, show your hands, don’t reach for anything, don’t give any attitude, do not be threatening in any way. Realize how you are viewed as a threat. I’m not saying that will stop all over reactions, and I’m not saying it is right, but in many of these situations, it would have. You look at the world the way it is, and you protect yourself accordingly.</p>
<p>That still doesn’t solve the problem of those shot after they were subdued and in hand cuffs. Fruitvale station anyone? Again, not a perfect son golden child going in, but giving up and getting successfully cuffed does not mean that you are safe from assault.</p>
<p>Saintfan, right. And the case where the teenager in a police cruiser with his hands cuffed behind his back was ruled a suicide after he was shot in the front. </p>
<p>At the end of the day, this may actually make the police less safe. Some black men may see the only way to survive an encounter with police is to kill them first. </p>
<p>A terribly sad day. I was conflicted about Brown, and thought the jury made the right call. Not this one. There is no excuse. That’s all I can say right now.</p>
<p>“That still doesn’t solve the problem of those shot after they were subdued and in hand cuffs. Fruitvale station anyone? Again, not a perfect son golden child going in, but giving up and getting successfully cuffed does not mean that you are safe from assault”</p>
<p>Actually, it does help. Non lethal weapons that cause no harm, even if used inappropriately, are…non lethal. Not right, not fair, not appropriate, but not dead is better than the alternative. If the first weapon that a police officer reaches for in any situation is a gun, there are a lot of dead people.</p>
<p>As a quick note, this is one of the least violent, least dangerous times in American history, and yet we are seeing a more aggravated (and aggravating) police force and more and more warnings about not being a target of police. Doesn’t anyone see a problem with that?</p>
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Why??? Why are they suddenly a threat when the acts of violence are decreasing. And why are we okay with that? Is it not the literal job of the police to know how to correctly identify a genuine threat?</p>
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The number of people killed every year by police far outweighs the numbers killed in those types of situations, and the individuals committing such crimes look and act quite distinctively. If that is the reason this is happening, then the police have a MAJOR training problem.</p>
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I expect cops to know the difference, and to be sufficiently trained to handle the risks that this is the one in a thousand cases where that toy gun is real.</p>
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You are describing a police state, not a free state. I mean that literally.</p>
<p>“As a quick note, this is one of the least violent, least dangerous times in American history, and yet we are seeing a more aggravated (and aggravating) police force and more and more warnings about not being a target of police. Doesn’t anyone see a problem with that?”</p>
<p>Yes, I see a huge problem with that. I could give you personal stories where friends and family have been affected by that. I detest the abuse of power and over militarization of the police. However, I believe part of this is a reaction to heavily publicized mass shootings. Even if the overall numbers of violent crimes have gone down, we are always hearing about another mass shooting. I believe the tendency of the police to instantly take down a suspect in public with something that looks like a gun is a reaction to that. That’s just my opinion, I have no idea if it’s the reality.</p>
<p>“Why??? Why are they suddenly a threat when the acts of violence are decreasing. And why are we okay with that? Is it not the literal job of the police to know how to correctly identify a genuine threat?”</p>
<p>We don’t have to be okay with that. But it’s important to acknowledge reality to give our kids the information to stay alive. I have drilled that into my kids, the top priority is to stay alive.</p>
<p>“I expect cops to know the difference, and to be sufficiently trained to handle the risks that this is the one in a thousand cases where that toy gun is real.”</p>
<p>Many toy guns, bb guns, guns without the colored tip on them look completely real. You really expect cops to be able to tell the difference from a distance? And do you honestly think that out of the number of young men pointing guns into a crowd, that only one in a thousand cases are they real? You must live in a very sheltered world. I don’t want cops to shoot innocent people, and I don’t want them to have to wait to react until a number of people are dead. Which is why I would like effective, non lethal weapons.</p>
<p>"Be very passive to the police, show your hands, don’t reach for anything, don’t give any attitude, do not be threatening in any way.</p>
<p>You are describing a police state, not a free state. I mean that literally. "</p>
<p>You really think this is bad advice to give to a kid, or to anyone, male or female of any age or any color? Do you think it’s a good idea to be aggressive, hide your hands, reach for something, give attitude, and appear threatening?</p>