<p>
</p>
<p>The bulk of the protests were always in Times Square. You can look for video. It exists. </p>
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</p>
<p>And considering we already have one instance of newsmedia falsifying video to that effect, I’ll be skeptical…</p>
<p>I’ll take the words of friends who were at the protests…including lawyers who were there to advise protestors of their rights.</p>
<p>Also, keep in mind ZM comes from Staten Island, an area with a large number of NYPD residents and sympathizers. It is also has the racial, SES, and political demographics resembling more those of an near all-White suburb in large parts of Long Island* or parts of suburban NJ than the rest of NYC except possibly neighborhoods like Bayside, Queens. </p>
<p>Thus, her comments need to be taken with that context in mind. </p>
<p>Ironically, it’s also an area of NYC notable for electing some notable conservative politicians like these:</p>
<p><a href=“Vito Fossella - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vito_Fossella</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/23/nyregion/rep-michael-grimm-to-plead-guilty-to-tax-charge.html?_r=0”>http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/23/nyregion/rep-michael-grimm-to-plead-guilty-to-tax-charge.html?_r=0</a></p>
<ul>
<li>Peter King is an outspoken conservative politician who represents a near-all White Long Island area heavily populated by current/former NYPD.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>I was wondering when we would get to the point where people refused to believe even things that happen on camera. Oh my god, we are there.</p>
<p>
I was at the protests. Myself. Me. The person I see in the mirror.</p>
<p>“That’s exactly the point. They are not. However, men of integrity and universal trust have been shut out of the dialogue by the mayor. It is only the voice of Al Sharpton, who does not represent all, most or even many actual black people, to which the mayor is listening.”</p>
<p>What are these other people doing to organize those they are speaking for? Surely, if they represent many more people than Rev. Sharpton, they should be able to bring those people together and present their point of view. Maybe they should be holding counter protests against the Reverend’s groups. It shouldn’t be difficult if those that Sharpton represents is such a small fraction. They don’t need the mayor for anything - they can affect change if they organize and speak loudly with one voice. Perhaps organizing marches all over the city in support of the police to start. </p>
<p>“I was wondering when we would get to the point where people refused to believe even things that happen on camera. Oh my god, we are there”</p>
<p>Actually, marie, if you go back and read some of the posts, you will realize that there are a number of people on here like that. It doesn’t matter if it is on camera, a million people saw something, the law enforcement and govt officials acknowledge it, whatever. It doesn’t fit their point of view, they didn’t see it, therefore, it couldn’t have happened. In fact, even if they saw something with their own eyes, they wouldn’t believe it, it must be the evil tea partiers trying to stir up trouble.</p>
<p>I am laughing like crazy right along with zoosermom 
</p>
<p>
That is certainly true and you are correct. However, in the case of Reverend Butts, I think he and other prominent members of the community would like the opportunity to speak to the mayor.</p>
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Marching is not the only way to bring change.</p>
<p>FWIW, both the Milwaukee case (mental illness) and the Staten Island case (asthma, heart condition, obesity) involved disability - a far more discriminated against minority than African-Americans.</p>
<p>No one seems to care about that factor.</p>
<p>Here’s the thing. The mayor is out of control. Even the activists are refusing to follow his suggestions to restore calm. What a mess.</p>
<p>“Marching is not the only way to bring change.”</p>
<p>Of course it’s not but elections are 3 years away and if they want to get the attention of the mayor - marches are a pretty good way to show you have a large majority of people who want to be heard. Letters to the editors and opinion pieces are simply not as effective. </p>
<p>I assume they must also have the support of some city councilman and some borough Presidents, too. Along with the large majority who Rev Al apparently doesn’t speak for, need to make where they stand on these issues known. </p>
<p>What do you think they should do to get heard so they are invited to the table? </p>
<p>
I really wish I knew what the grand jury in Staten Island based the decision on. I know the DA personally (me, not a cousin, not an imaginary twin sister’s brother-in-law’s godfather) and I just can’t imagine how this outcome was possible because he is the farthest thing from a racist. It seems like the information isn’t going to come out, though. However, it might be possible for SOME information to become public in a civil suit.</p>
<p>Did anyone see that Mr. Garner’s daughter placed a wreath at the memorial for the two officers? Classy. </p>
<p>Zoosermom, was this the march you were at? I’m confused because you mentioned something about Times Square but this march went nowhere near Times Sq. </p>
<p>Am I correct to assume this march was the one with the “dead cops” chant and the one you were at? </p>
<p><a href=“"Enough is enough": Tens of thousands march to protest police violence - CBS News”>http://www.cbsnews.com/news/eric-garner-ferguson-missouri-protesters-converge-on-washington/</a></p>
<p>" I just can’t imagine how this outcome was possible because he is the farthest thing from a racist."</p>
<p>It’s not about people thinking the DA’s in these cases are racists. It’s about believing that don’t want to bring indictments against police officers because they have to work with them to be able to get convictions on their other cases. </p>
<p>
Emily, the marches occurred every night for several weeks. In fact, the entirety of West 42nd street is still closed behind barricades. Today. Still. And the marches generally went all the way up the west side, stopping in Times Square coming from downtown to Fifth Avenue as the march you referenced did. But I can tell you it was not the night of the 14th, because I left early that day. So “near” isn’t really relevant to the specific situation. You have made clear that my word isn’t good, and I completely respect that, but no, it wasn’t this march on the 14th. I respectfully think that the continuity and pervasiveness of the protests in the Times Square area since the Garner grand decision was handed down is confusing things a little bit.</p>
<p>“I really wish I knew what the grand jury in Staten Island based the decision on. I know the DA personally (me, not a cousin, not an imaginary twin sister’s brother-in-law’s godfather) and I just can’t imagine how this outcome was possible because he is the farthest thing from a racist. It seems like the information isn’t going to come out, though. However, it might be possible for SOME information to become public in a civil suit.”</p>
<p>I believe it was because they were not allowed to consider a lesser charge than manslaughter or homicide, which means you’d have to have the grand jury believe that the officer was intentionally trying to kill Mr. Garner. I couldn’t understand why the officer wasn’t charged with something either, but if you have taken lesser charges off the table and only presented with the most extreme charges, that could have been the factor. However, I did not hear it from a friend or cousin, or even someone from high school, so I don’t know if you can believe this. I just read it on the Huffington Post.</p>
<p>"The Staten Island District Attorney did not ask the Eric Garner grand jury to consider reckless endangerment charges against NYPD officer Daniel Pantaleo, NBC New York reports. </p>
<p>An unnamed source familiar with the case told the station that District Attorney Daniel Donovan only asked jurors to consider charges of manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide as they heard evidence"</p>
<p>’</p>
<p>“And the marches generally went all the way up the west side, stopping in Times Square coming from downtown to Fifth Avenue as the march you referenced did”</p>
<p>Ok. The article didn’t mention Times Sq just that they marched up 5th Ave to midtown. I wasn’t even thinking Times Sq. Don’t know why. Just wasn’t. </p>
<p>But, that is besides the point. I was just trying to figure out which march you were at that they were chanting “dead cops” because I hadn’t heard anything like that watching the news of the daily marches (and yes, I know they have been marching every day since the no bill.) </p>
<p>I never doubted you were at a march - but I thought that was the march were “dead cops” was chanted and that provoked the violence against the cops on the Brooklyn Bridge. </p>
<p>I am off to google “dead cop chant video” so I can get all the marches straight in my mind. </p>
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</p>
<p>In the Garner case, it’s also possible the DA had little to do with the final outcome due to the demographic makeup of the GJ who are drawn from SI. </p>
<p>An area heavily populated by current/retired NYPD. Members of the GJ may have voted the way they did because of they/their family/friends are/were NYPD and felt handing down indictment for a case like this would be tantamount to betraying one of their own along with feeling that Garner was a lawbreaker whose death was a consequence for not obeying the law/cops when ordered to do so. </p>
<p>This attitude is very prevalent in many parts of the LEO community. </p>
<p>Got to observe this just yesterday when one FB friend who is a serving NYPD officer got into an argument with a mutual friend over whether all protests against police brutality, racial profiling, and other wrongful actions is “anti-cop” and another friend invited me to join a “Vigil” for the two slain NYPD officers which was posted by a LEO with inflammatory racially charged rhetoric against protestors which denoted having serious issues with African-Americans. Latter friend and I got into a heated argument about whether it’s right to be associated with that individual’s vigil considering the racist issues of the one initiating it. </p>
<p>The latter’s more ironic as the poster and the friend are both from near all-White NJ suburbs with recent past issues with racial tensions against African-Americans and other racial minorities. </p>
<p>Ok. This is all I could find and it was the march on the 13th. The “Million Marchers” protest. IIrc, that was the day the organizers held the march in DC, too. </p>
<p><a href=“Last Week: NYC Protesters Chant "What Do We Want? Dead Cops! When Do We Want It? Now!" | Video | RealClearPolitics”>http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/12/22/last_week_nyc_protesters_chant_what_do_we_want_dead_cops_when_do_we_want_it_now.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“The Monsters Who Screamed for Dead Cops”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/23/who-started-new-york-s-dead-cops-chant.html</a></p>
<p>"Which part of the protests and when? I didn’t hear that chant when I passed and observed those protests while enroute/leaving a client site in the Union Square/Flatiron area. Several friends and former colleagues of mine were at those protests as participants or journalists and they never heard and would never utter such words…especially considering some are children of current/retired NYPD/LEO officers.</p>
<p>Sorry, but I have to call BS on that"</p>
<p>I really think you need to knock this off. You keep calling zoosermom a liar, and discounting all of her personal and honest observations because of her skin color and your idea that people in her neighborhood must be racist. I don’t think this kind of racist commentary belongs on this thread, and certainly not on this forum.</p>
<p>Busdriver11,</p>
<p>It’s not an idea, but an observation from growing up in NYC, visiting Staten Island, having several friends/colleagues having uncomfortable run-ins with White SI residents on account of being racial minorities, etc.</p>
<p>One acquaintance who is also a lifelong New Yorker recounted to me and a mutual friend how when he was visiting Staten Island to visit a friend, he encountered several White residents with baseball bats brusquely asking him what his business was in the area and telling him to go back the way he came on account of his being Black. He ended up having to make several detours to the point what should have been a 5-10 minute walk from a SIRT station took almost an hour and half. </p>
<p>What was more shocking was to hear how this didn’t happen in the 1980’s when I was growing up, but in the early-mid '00s. The acquaintance is also not a young man one would think is intimidating, but a 50-ish professional who wasn’t terribly surprised along with myself and the mutual friend who was familiar with that aspect of SI. </p>
<p>busdriver, why are we not allowed to discuss racism in Staten Island? SI is widely known to have issues related to racial tolerance. It is the borough with the lowest percentage of black residents. Its residents elected Michael Grimm, who has a history of racist and anti-gay views and has been recorded on several occasions threatening people. If we were talking about the south people would have no trouble speaking freely about their observations and impressions. </p>
<p>I don’t think zoosermom is lying but she is only one person.</p>