Ferguson Part Deux - No charges to be filed!

[busdriver11]

<p>“busdriver, why are we not allowed to discuss racism in Staten Island?”</p>

<p>I believe you are allowed to discuss whatever this forum permits. However, if I see someone’s opinion being discounted in a racist way and called a liar, I will say so. Bringing up the racial history of an area, telling experiences of yet another acquaintance, and hey…let’s add on the French Revolution and the occupation of Taiwan are all irrelevant to discounting someone’s personal experience because they are white and live in a certain area, so therefore they must be lying. I am surprised that you would support that. Or should I be?</p>

<p>“I don’t think zoosermom is lying but she is only one person.”</p>

<p>Even emily managed to find a link. I guess you didn’t bother to look.
This thread is like arguing with people who are in an alternate universe. If they haven’t seen it themselves (or friends or cousins have), it must have not happened. How do you argue with that? I’m off to do something more productive.</p>

[sally305]

<p>Yes. There is definitely an alternative universe here–a predictable one. It is unfortunate.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>Here’s some articles and sites which discuss issues racism on SI:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/04/us/eric-garner-neighborhood/”>http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/04/us/eric-garner-neighborhood/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“Racism in Staten Island 09.03”>http://www.edchange.org/multicultural/papers/racism.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“The Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at the City University of New York › The requested URL was not found”>The Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at the City University of New York › The requested URL was not found;

[EMM1]

<p>And then there are the groups that plan to stage protests on the day that the officers are being buried. Now there’s something that is guaranteed to win support for their cause.</p>

<p>A recipe for trouble.</p>

<p>By the way, does anyone on this list deny that some protesters threw trash cans at police?</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

By the way, does anyone on this list deny that some protesters threw trash cans at police?

</p>

<p>From reports, it was one isolated incident which occurred AT THE END of what was a mostly peaceful demonstration. </p>

<p>Also, it doesn’t refute genuine grievances African-American and other folks have with many LEOs like this:</p>

<p><a href=“Black Teens Shouldn't Be Chased Out of Park Slope, Councilman Says - Park Slope - New York - DNAinfo”>http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141002/park-slope/black-teens-shouldnt-be-chased-out-of-park-slope-councilman-says&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>or this:</p>

<p><a href=“Michael Brown | Mediaite”>http://www.mediaite.com/online/elks-lodge-disowns-dead-dead-michael-brown-song-at-ex-cop-charity-event/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Just two among many many other incidents which have occurred just recently.</p>

[EMM1]

<p>Just for the record, I don’t think anyone has denied that most demonstrators are peaceful, or that some police officers have treated African-Americans inappropriately on some occasions. I was merely pointing out that not all of the demonstrators are angels.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

I was merely pointing out that not all of the demonstrators are angels.

</p>

<p>In addition to a non-angelic minority which should not be blown out of proportion as some conservative mass media, LEOs & sympathizers seem to be fond of doing, there’s also the possibility the participant(s) may be acting as agent provocateurs to discredit the protestors and message itself. </p>

<p>It isn’t the first time in history…including US history that agent provocateurs have been used by rival groups or LEO agencies:</p>

<p><a href=“COINTELPRO - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[sally305]

<p>

And then there are the groups that plan to stage protests on the day that the officers are being buried. Now there’s something that is guaranteed to win support for their cause.

</p>

<p>Those people should be regarded as extremists and ignored, just like we have all grown accustomed to ignoring the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church members who protest military and other funerals because of their anti-gay beliefs.</p>

[tom1944]

<p>There is a problem that needs to be addressed whether the police union thinks so or not.</p>

<p><a href=“Off Duty Black Officers In New York Say They Fear Fellow Cops | HuffPost Latest News”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;

[EMM1]

<p>Unfortunately, if I understood the NPR report correctly, it is not simply fringe groups that are planning demonstrations on Saturday.</p>

[hayden]

<p>Tom, that’s a very interesting and sad article. People who think the blacks bring it on themselves by their activities might find this very enlightening. I thought several of the points were particularly good. </p>

<p>

Reuters interviewed 25 African American male officers on the NYPD, 15 of whom are retired and 10 of whom are still serving. All but one said that, when off duty and out of uniform, they had been victims of racial profiling, which refers to using race or ethnicity as grounds for suspecting someone of having committed a crime.</p>

<p>The officers said this included being pulled over for no reason, having their heads slammed against their cars, getting guns brandished in their faces, being thrown into prison vans and experiencing stop and frisks while shopping. The majority of the officers said they had been pulled over multiple times while driving. Five had had guns pulled on them.</p>

<p>Desmond Blaize, who retired two years ago as a sergeant in the 41st Precinct in the Bronx, said he once got stopped while taking a jog through Brooklyn’s upmarket Prospect Park. “I had my ID on me so it didn’t escalate,” said Blaize, who has sued the department alleging he was racially harassed on the job. “But what’s suspicious about a jogger? In jogging clothes?”

</p>

<p>Look how many black police officers had guns pulled on them. The story that Michael Brown suddenly decided to stick his head into a police SUV, reach across the police officer and unholster the officer’s gun has never struck me as realistic. But here we have black police saying white police officers pulled guns on them, obviously for doing nothing wrong. That’s 20% of the black policeman interviewed. Much higher percentage than I would ever have imagined. </p>

[emilybee]

<p>No, they won’t find it enlightening. </p>

[tom1944]

<p>hayden - I recognize there is a problem that needs to be addressed but I do not think it is unrealistic that Michael Brown went for officer Wilson’s gun.
I think both situations play out every day. I have seen both with my own eyes- officer misconduct- abuse and individual citizens doing things where you could see them getting seriously hurt and the officer would be justified.</p>

[LasMa]

<p>

Sure, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a real truth in each of these cases and leaders are supposed to sort it out and explain it, not heighten the misunderstanding and deepen the divisions for their own purposes. 

</p>

<p>A jury trial is what you want in these cases, then. Witnesses testifying under oath, cross examination to find holes in the witnesses’ stories. If the “truth” is what you want I would think you’d want all the evidence to be heard in open court.</p>

[Consolation]

<p>

@cobrat

Also, keep in mind ZM comes from Staten Island, an area with a large number of NYPD residents and sympathizers. It is also has the racial, SES, and political demographics resembling more those of an near all-White suburb in large parts of Long Island* or parts of suburban NJ than the rest of NYC except possibly neighborhoods like Bayside, Queens.</p>

<p>Thus, her comments need to be taken with that context in mind.

</p>

<p>And I would point out that zoosermom has always been the first to decry the racism of some parts of Staten Island and was very much opposed to the grand jury’s decision re the Eric Garner affair.</p>

[catahoula]

<p>

I really think you need to knock this off. You keep calling zoosermom a liar, and discounting all of her personal and honest observations because of her skin color and your idea that people in her neighborhood must be racist.

Very well said, busdriver. I stopped counting the number of posts that insinuated zoose was lying, evidently because a couple of posters hadn’t seen it with their own eyes. And, after being congratulated by one for setting her mind straight,

So that was different protest than the one with the edited chant? Ok. My apologies. I should have checked first before posting but the thread is so long.

</p>

[catahoula]

<p>The AG:

That’s the essence of who we are as Americans. We protest. We get loud. We disrupt things all with the hope we’re going to make the country better. They have raised issues that we need to discuss, that we have needed to discuss. This is an opportunity for this nation to listen to those young people and some of them aren’t so young. It’s a multiracial effort that I see. This nation needs to deal with the concerns they have raised and make this nation simply better.

</p>

<p>The Americans he’s supporting:

Over a thousand anti-cop activists tried to shut down Fifth Avenue in Midtown and the Upper East Side on Tuesday– defying Mayor Bill de Blasio‘s call for a moratorium on the demonstrations after two Brooklyn police officers were slain.</p>

<p>Most of the agitators chanted angrily at the police. “How do you spell murderers? N-Y-P-D!” said the agitators.</p>

<p>“NYPD, KKK, how many kids did you kill today?” other protesters chanted, who started on the sidewalk before moving onto the streets of Fifth and Madison Avenue.

That they’re pushing a racial component is undeniable to anyone that can read. Where’s the proof?</p>

<p>Smart crowd here, and one that likely considers it’s self an informed one - If any of you have it, please share and we’ll all be the better for it.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

That they’re pushing a racial component is undeniable to anyone that can read. Where’s the proof?

</p>

<p>This link provides some quotes from a few forums by and for NYPD officers…and ones which require verification of ID before posting:</p>

<p><a href=“How Anonymous Cops Online Are Reacting to the Death of Eric Garner”>http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/cops-react-to-the-death-of-eric-garner.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Some of the comments cannot be quoted due to the nasty language and/or blatant racism displayed by some LEOs posting there. </p>

<p>While they do not represent all NYPD officers, the nasty and racist comments by this group of LEOs are a serious indication the grievances African-Americans and other folks have had against racial profiling, harassment, and brutality are real and not fabricated or blown out of proportion as some posters here seem to believe. </p>

[LasMa]

<p>Wow, cobrat. That’s really disturbing.</p>

[tom1944]

<p>What both sides need to understand is that the most vile things said at the protests and the most vile things said by the police on-line do not represent the feelings of the majority of people.</p>

<p>I believe most of us recognize a problem exists in that many non-criminal minority citizens have a different view of the police than many non-minority non-criminal citizens. That needs to be addressed. IMHO it is up to the police to solve that not the citizens. </p>

<p>On this thread there have been some things mentioned that may help- an independent prosecutor to handle crimes with police involvement. I would add increased minority hiring. I believe NYC has been attempting to do that.</p>

<p>What are some others?</p>