I’ve been following this thread since the beginning. OP - if this person is a friend, have a conversation about this,share your opinion and feelings and then decide what to do with the relationship when you see her response. I just don’t see why you would talk to a third party without addressing it with her first.
If you look at my post #96, you will see that I noted "in his own home AND/OR with a parent or legal guardian. So, yes, @oldfort, people under 21 can legally consume outside of the residence in Texas under certain circumstances, but NOT just with parental consent as you stated. It must be IN THE PRESENCE of the parent or legal guardian. The parent or guardian MUST be present, so just giving consent to someone else to serve your kid does not work. The link you provided is not accurate, at least for Texas.
I think you are not really understanding the issue some adults have with other adults serving minors. No one here is saying that parents shouldn’t “just teach their kids not to be in such situation”. Pretty sure most of us here know what to teach our kids. But that does not mean that we should not care if adults allow or encourage kids, our kids or other kids, to participate in behavior we are teaching our kids is wrong. I can give many examples, but here are a couple. I teach my kids to not cheat. I also do not want teachers allowing other kids to cheat. I teach my kids to not use crack. I also do not want other parents allowing other kids to use crack. So, likewise, I teach my underage kids to not drink at parties. And still, even though I do teach that to my kids, I also do not want other parents serving kids, any kids, alcohol at parties. I don’t want those kids lives to be ruined, or for them to ruin other lives, because they drive drunk, or are sexually assaulted, etc. Yes, we can and should all teach our kids how to behave in a situation or how to avoid a situation. This is a separate issue from the issue of adults serving alcohol to minors.
There may be an unintended consequence if the counselor is notified. Some schools might do an investigation and punish everyone who attended the party, including, possibly, a notation on transcripts. This would seem to me to be an unduly harsh penalty, at least for some of the students who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, with a seriously misguided set of parents who were more concerned about their child’s approval than putting lives at risk.
@MidwestDad3, what about a party that has yet to happen? That is what I was wondering about. What do you think about notifying the counselor about a party where the parents are planning to have beer, wine, and a daiquiri machine?
@Barfly Yes, in that case I think it would be appropriate to notify the counselor. You very well might be saving someone’s life.
Yes, that’s what I think also, @MIdwestDad3.
@ barfly-
I don’t think oldfort was saying that parents can give others permission to serve alcohol to their kids under the law, the drinking age law where it is legal for people under 21 to drink generally requires that the parent or guardian be present (not a lawyer, but I don’t think it is legal for parents to designate someone as guardian vis a vis their kids drinking).
I personally think that the friend in question’s biggest issue is that she served alcohol to kids without their parents consent, law or no law, I am a lot less concerned it was illegal then I am it is unethical, to say the least.
I am not sure what a counselor would do before a party happened, but I would not tell a counselor after it happened. First of all, a lot of schools these days seem hell bent on coming down like a ton of bricks for things kids have done outside school,rather than on treating it as something they need to discourage, you immediately have the zero tolerance, come down like a ton of bricks for any perceived violation , and given the especially strong emotional reaction to booze, I don’t think that would be helpful. If they get work before a party, what would they do? Tell the other parents a party was happening with booze? I am just not sure what a counselor could do, and what they could do might have worse consequences then doing nothing.
I don’t know about every district, but at my high school I’m pretty sure no one would have done anything about it. There was generally a blind eye turned towards drug dealing inside the school, the idea that they’d do anything about alcohol, off campus, seems ridiculous. What could they even do?
Everyone knows you’re not supposed to drive drunk. Anyone who chooses to do so would likely do it regardless of this party happened or not. I’m going to make the assumption that these parents who provided the alcohol had some place for people to sleep if they weren’t able to drive home.
Barfly - what you failed to understand is people 18 and over are not minors or children, they are young adults who can vote, join the military and are responsible for their actions. What they can’t do under our law is to drink, just like under our law the speed limit is 65. It is up to them to decide if they want to break the law or not.
As far as notifying school’s counselor or police in anticipation of a party, what if your info is incorrect? You would be a crazy person who is constantly crying wolf.
At the end of day, why not just focus on your own children - make sure they know when and how to drink, be there for them when they need you, and not worry so much about what other people are doing.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned the places where parents get together and sign contracts to not only host alcohol free parties, but to actually remove the liquor in the home or put it under lock and key when other kids are present.
We don’t go so far as to do that because we can trust the parents of our kids friends. For that matter, their friends, are very trustworthy as well.
Sometimes there is cross over when they attend other parties and the kids there usually know enough not to do the drugs and alcohol thing with that group present.
That’s fine as long as you/they are willing to accept any and all consequences of breaking the law. That goes for drugs and speeding as well.
Has OP come back? What did you do?
Thanks, @oldfort. I do understand that people 18 and over are adults. I’ve even raised a few of them! But, as you know, most high school students are under 18.
It’s an interesting discussion, and I have enjoyed hearing from others how they handle such things. But you and I, oldfort, just disagree. I won’t take your advice to just focus on my own children. My husband and I mentor and guide many young people, as I’m sure most of us do (sometimes without even realizing it). For many kids, the only guidance they receive is from adults who are not their own parents, but are teachers, coaches, neighbors, and the parents of their classmates. Many kids don’t have the advantage in life of having you as a parent, guiding them and teaching them the life skills they need. I can spare a little time to focus on those kids, as well as my own. I also won’t take your advice to not worry so much about what other people are doing if I believe that what they are doing is harmful to kids. That’s my line in the sand.
Thanks, @fieldsports, for starting the discussion, which got off track but clearly stuck a chord with many of us!
Happy Friday, Everyone!
OP still here, reading and reflecting. Some of you understand how I feel. It’s an individual thing, and that’s OK. As the words “final straw” in the title may suggest, there have been years of other things, beyond the scope of this forum, that have frayed the friendship a bit. Because loyalty is one of my own personal values, and because I don’t want the world to be a colder place for anybody, including this old friend who has meant well in many ways over the years, I will not cut off contact. But it’s common for birds of a feather to flock together. For whatever reason, I do feel closer to the friends who genuinely share my values, and find it more relaxing to get together and talk and laugh when there are not big conversational landmines I have to keep stepping around. So I will probably spend less of my very limited social time with the old friend in question. That’s OK. Friendships wax and wane, it is a fact of life. I’d rather let it wane, than cut it off altogether. But I don’t feel obligated to make as much time for something that has turned into a bit of a conversational land mine slalom (sort of like the dog doo slalom, that I was warned about when walking in Brussels). Now I’ve probably made somebody else mad! Sorry.
@fieldsports I don’t know why you feel so apologetic about reducing contact with this person who obviously doesn’t care at all about dismissing your values and feelings. Loyalty is a lovely quality but maintaining loyalty to someone who doesn’t show the same respect to you is wasted, IMO.
For some reason, we’ve become far more afraid of being considered “judgmental” than we are of enabling people who display damaging and dangerous behavior. I think it’s totally natural to feel closer to people who respect your standards and don’t force you to tiptoe around topics for fear of offending them. You are far more generous to your “old friend” than I would be and I fear that you value her feelings far more than she does yours.
@barfly, when I said to focus on your own children it is in the spirit of raising YOUR kids with your values and not insist on other people to provide an environment for your children to foster your values. In this case, you do not want your kid to drink under 21, but it is not up to other people to make sure there is never any alcohol when your kid is around. Your 18 year old can choose not to attend any event where there is alcohol. It is wonderful you mentor other young adults, so do I and many other people, but not sure what it has to do with this discussion.
@barfly, most high school students are under 18, but most seniors are over 18, and this party was for high school seniors. If those young adults chose not to break the law (because their parents have taught them better) then there wouldn’t be a party. Similar analogy…Residents of a town were protesting a large porno shop was to open around them, but if no one was buying those things wouldn’t the store just close down. Maybe those residents should wonder why their town warranted a large porno shop.
Good morning, oldfort. I think you are saying we should ignore it, or maybe mind our own business, when adults serve alcohol to people 18 to 21. I’m afraid I just don’t follow your logic. Regardless, we just disagree.
Joblue: excellent post.
Barfly: I completely agree with you. Making sure our kids do the right thing is not our only job as a parent and as a member of our community. Making sure that all kids are safe is important to me too.
Joblue, thank you for getting right to the heart of it. You are correct.