Financial Advice please!

Paying for College
1

Hello!

I’m seeking the advice of experienced CCers who can shed some light on how to make the best financial choice.

I know most college decisions and financial aid packages have not come out yet, but there is a high probability that because of my high school profile, that I will end up being accepted to many matches and hopefully a few reach schools.

I’ll lay out the options. Experienced CCers, please share your thoughts, advice, questions on this situation.

Some things to note:
My family is in the middle-class, may be considered upper-middle. Probably won’t be getting a lot of need-based aid.
I plan to go to graduate school but I’m not 100% what field (masters, PhD or MBA in the future), aiming for a top program

Options:

  1. In-State Honors college Full Tuition

As a national merit SF (most likely finalist as well), I have already been accepted to my in-state honors college with full tuition, I will only need to pay housing/food etc. (Please PM me if you wish to know where). Ostensibly, this is the best financial option–I’ll be out of college with very little debt. However, I don’t thrive in a huge public university system where professors are often more focused on research and students are simply “cycled” through. Even within the honors college, class sizes are still big and professors not as accessible. I do not want to live in the state I am in in the future.

  1. Top LAC Minimal Aid

This is where I know I will thrive. I’m ~80% sure that I thrive best at small undergrad focused LACs, specifically the top ones. I will be in a much better position academically if I go to a LAC, especially because they have such great placement into every field. I want a liberal arts education, and don’t know what I want to study so LACs are perfect in this regard. I will be better positioned to get into a good graduate program with strong relationships with my professors and more personal development. No question about it–LACs are a great fit for me and I would be happy all four years, especially with the specific ones I’m aiming for. While some LACs are known for generous need based aid, it will still be very costly, and potentially leave me less options for graduate school if I’m burdened with student loans/can’t afford some programs.

Pros- being surrounded by top students and minds from across the US, experiencing unparalleled personal development.
Cons- Expensive

  1. Ivy League, etc--Minimal Aid

These are categorized as “other”. I applied to Ivies, comparable universities and other top universities like UChicago, USC etc. These places could provide unparalleled opportunities and connections. Some of these universities probably have connections and resources that aren’t offered at other schools, making them ideal since I want to pursue graduate school. These places will have research opportunities and name recognition in the academic world. However, since I don’t know what I want to do, maybe I should save the money for a top graduate school when I’ll have a better idea of what I want to study?

Off topic question: Should I be applying to scholarships? I’ve heard that they are a double edged sword because if you win a scholarship, sometimes colleges will deduct that out of your need-based aid! Are most scholarships like that? Is it still worth it to apply?

Thank you all in advance!

2

How do you KNOW where you will thrive? Realistically…there are large classes at small schools and small classes t large schools.

Once you get into your major and upper division classes, your classes will be a modest size.

What major?

Even at HUGE universities, the professors have office hours…they do.

What state honors college is this (you can PM me)? If you haven’t already done so, I would suggest you sit in on some honors college classes. Talk to some students in the honors college.

There are professors at every college with knowledge of graduate programs in their field. This is not unique to expensive private colleges.

In terms of paying the costs…this is between you and your parents. To get NO need based aid at a place like University of Chicago, your family income would need to be mighty high…or you would need to have very significant assets.

So…just apply…and wait and see what your net costs are. Then sit down with your family and crunch the numbers.

Good luck. You will do well wherever you go to college!

3

While you are waiting do yourself a favor and read a couple of books. Both are quick reads.

Bruni’s - where you go is not who you will be

Bissonnette’s - Debt Free U

Neither book will tell you what to decide, but they do a good job helping put the concept of fit in proper perspective.

I will tell you that the vast majority of middle class NMF kids who attend a state flagship honors college with full tuition never regret it. It is fun to go to school and not have to stress about money. The honors college make a big school act small.

Good luck I’m sure you will be happy with your choice!

4

It is really impossible for anyone to answer this for you. We have no idea what the difference in price means to your family.

Couple of comments:

How do you know? Have you ever been a student at one?

Certainly not anymore than your group 3 schools.

Professors actually like it when students come to their office. Most students just don’t take advantage of it.

LACs will have less majors (aprox 50) than your group #1 and #3 ( >200). The 50 will satisfy most. However, most HS students haven’t been exposed to many of the subjects.

This can very greatly by area. There is likely 300+ schools in the country that will not limit your ability to get into any graduate program in the world. This becomes more about the student than the college.

5

If you don’t like your own state flagship, if you are a NMF, you could have a free or almost free ride at other flagships or smaller schools that offer that to NMF such as Kentucky or Florida schools. I disagree with you that all flagship classes are huge and that professors only care about research, but that determination is for you to make and whether you are willing to pay extra for those small classes. My daughter went to a flagship and all upper division classes were limited to 24 students; many lower division classes such as languages or art only had 15 students in them. She knew most of her professors well, even in the few (I think 3) classes she took that were a big lecture of over 100 because those courses had discussion groups and she went to office hours. Up to you to decide if you are willing to pay for a guarantee of smaller class sizes but remember, if only 20 students are allowed in a class, you need to be one of the lucky ones to get into that class as a freshman. If it fills up, you’ll have to take a different course

If you get outside scholarships, most schools will consider that you have met some of your need and will reduce need based aid. The problem is you don’t even know if you’ll get need based aid before the deadlines of the scholarships, so might as well try for those outside scholarships. Also, some schools allow you to use some of that outside money for computers, transportation, to offset loans, etc. so you are better off with them. If you get a $2000 scholarship and the school reduces your need based aid by $2000, you are no worse off. If they let you use that $2000 for a computer, you are better off. Plus, it’s nice to win a scholarship and be rewarded for writing a nice essay or having the best entry in the art show and not just get money as financial aid.

The woman who just became a Rhodes scholar from U of Colorado was a Boettcher scholar, which is a very nice full ride scholarship with a lot of extras. She also was Miss Teen Colorado and had some scholarship money from that. I suspect she has some funds banked for grad school because the Boettcher paid for all her undergrad and she kept applying for awards as a teen.

6

You are underestimating the opportunities at public flagship honors colleges. Since you don’t say which one, I would encourage you not to generalize. My daughter is in such program and has weekly dinner with one of her professors, has a number of classes under 20 students, is studying in Italy this summer, has guaranteed research, and just in general has tremendous opportunities. For her major, her school is ranked higher than all of the Ivies.

IMO, if cost is an issue and you are planning on grad school, go to the most affordable option.

7

It sounds like you created this thread to get support for not attending your state flagship, which you have not received so far. Are your parents able and willing to be full pay or are they pushing you toward your state flagship? Are they willing to take out Parent Plus loans if needed?

8

Huge universities are not LACs. So, I’d say your realistic difference is between LACs and your state Flagship. (The downsides you point out about your flagship will also exist at Ivies etc.)
So, have you run the NPC? Did to discuss the results with your parents? Did they say they could afford the costs and were willing to invest that much money in your education? If so, go to the LAC. I’d happily pay for my kid’s best for if they’d worked hard for it and I had the funds.
But … few families can. Some families don’t want to.

If you haven’t done all of this, do. Run the NPC and discuss things with your parents. If they’re unable or unwilling to pay then you can wrap your mind around attending your flagship, looking for living learning communities perhaps a residential college, etc.

9

Also where profs are mostly interested in research.

Have you run the Net Price Calculators on these schools’ websites?

What are your parents saying about how much they’ll pay per year?

What is your major and career goal?

Other schools give big merit for NMF…and some schools have small classes in their honors colleges.

BTW…nearly all schools, even elite private schools, have LARGE classes for frosh soph lecture classes.

10

You posted the above in Dec. You have a younger sibling and parents who haven’t been really clear about what they’ll pay other than to say they’ll pay more for some colleges than others. I understand you want to leave your state, but if your parents won’t pay or they need to take a PLUS loan or sell assets like you suggested in your other thread then your choices may be limited by financial constraints.

If you’re awarded any outside scholarships they’re likely going to be too small to make a dent in a ~$60k college bill. Some colleges reduce their aid by the amount of outside scholarships. You’ll have to read their policies.

11

You’re bright, but I agree you can’t know for certain how you’ll fare. The best kids are not shunted aside at big flagships and somehow hand picked out of the crowd at an LAC. Most of one’s success, wherever they attend, is based on the individual, how that person proceeds.

Most parents who ask FA or affordability questions on CC restrain themselves somewhat. That can mislead some who haven’t been through it. Those of us who are not 1% realize how wrenching it is to face the humongous costs of college for our kids. If it’s not all sitting in some savings plan, it has to come from somewhere.

Since there are no admits to choose among, yet, for now, all you can do is be open to what works best for everyone in your family. Run the NPC andhave the conversation with your parents. Do not assume parent loans are the answer. They need to be paid back and accrue substantial interest. Most “outside” scholarships are a few thousand, max. The few that are big have deadlines that passed.

12

Are your parents self employed? Do they own a business? Are they divorced? Do they own real estate in addition to your primary residence? If NO to all of these…then do the net price calculators.

BUT if the answer is yes to any of the above, the net price calculators will likely NOT be accurate for you. Too many variables that are not accounted for in the NPCs.

Since you aren’t even sure of your undergrad major…how can you be so sure you will need to or even want to go to grad school?

13

Please define this using an actual dollar amount. Otherwise nobody knows what the heck you are talking about and therefore you won’t get advice that is tailored to your specific situation.

That depends on your actual family finances and the particular school. Again, give us dollar amounts and we can confirm your assumption or set you straight.

14

Parental loans are a very bad idea. If your parents can’t afford their EFC, then, focus on ways to make your flagship more palatable, or look into NMSF deals at many other universities (like UF, for instance)

15

“I have already been accepted to my in-state honors college with full tuition”

A lot of states have very good public universities. I have worked with people who graduated from Stanford and MIT, and I have worked with people who graduated from their in-state public flagship. You really would not know where anyone came from unless you ask. The best graduates from their in-state public university are as good as anyone.

Of course it is hard to make an informed comment without knowing which university you are talking about.

“I plan to go to graduate school”

Quite a few students go to their in-state public schools for undergrad, and then go to a very high ranked university for graduate school. One advantage is that a master’s program is quite a bit shorter than a bachelor’s (and therefore probably more affordable if you are not getting need based aid), and PhD programs are very often fully funded with various forms of financial aid.

You still have some time to make up you mind. You might want to wait until your acceptances and financial aid offers are all in, and then post actual names of the universities plus the cost of each and the amount of debt that you would need to take on for each. That would allow us to give more meaningful advice.

16

Your post is long on conjecture and short on facts.

There are LOTS of huge universities where the faculty is accessible, highly engaged in teaching undergrads, and just as focused on YOU as the faculty at an LAC. Without knowing which schools you are talking about, we can’t give you great advice.

There are LOTS of departments, even in a huge university, where the classes are mostly seminars, where the amount of personal attention you will get is extraordinary. Without knowing what you are interested in studying, we can’t help you.

There are some colleges where the undergrad experience and advising is so extraordinary, that you might not need grad school. And some colleges and fields of study where even if you are getting one on one attention, getting a grad degree is a must in order to advance. So without knowing more about your interests, we can’t help you.

So save your energy for when you’ve got actual admissions and financial data in front of you. And of course- undergrads change their mind all the time. Students transfer from small LAC’s to large universities because their interests change- and they run out of courses where they are. Students transfer from large universities to small LAC’s because the department they are in is focused in a different area than the one they are interested in. But we can’t help you without knowing more.

17

It would be helpful to know the state flagship honors college to which you have been offered a full tuition scholarship.

18

Honors even within the same state is not the same. Some honors Universities mean you get to register before everyone else (e.g. NC State), some honors mean you can take honors sections which are smaller sizes/“better” teachers but may not be offered for that many courses (UNC Chapel Hill). So it’s at least possible that honors could mean smaller classes where you get first pick of which section/professor.

19

“I’m seeking the advice of experienced CCers who can shed some light on how to make the best financial choice.”

The best “financial” choice is the one where you graduate with the least debt and expense to you and your family. If you want approval to make an emotional choice, say so. It’s okay to want to live on the east coast. It’s not okay to put your family in debt or your parents retirement at risk or limit a sibling’s college options in order to do so.

In the end you have to “bloom where you’re planted”. The east coast grad schools will still be there.

20

@DadTwoGirls PMed w/ more information