First Year Dropouts

<p>EmmyBet, I can assure you that I knew you were not critiquing a kid like my D2 who knew she wanted a BFA. I think most teens are not 100% sure and so a BA is really appropriate because it allows for changing minds and exploring options, which is what college is generally about! And if a kid in a BFA changes his/her mind, that’s OK too. </p>

<p>By the way, just because you do a BFA, it doesn’t mean you can only do one thing…perform. My D who got a BFA is performing but she also is doing well right now as a writer/composer, as well as a musical director. She is involved in several facets of theater.</p>

<p>Yes! We spent a week researching CA schools because when she told an adult she respected that she wanted to be an actress, he said, “Well, then of course you’ll be going to CA!” I almost bagged our trip to NY - which she had been wanting to do for a year - and switched to CA, but she told me just in time that it had been a whim. </p>

<p>We are visiting as many non-auditioned, flexible programs as possible because I am concerned that she’ll pick an auditioned acceptance precisely because she’d feel guilty turning it down, after the effort and expense. I do want her to remember the value in all programs. So many variables! Her sister is at one of the most expensive schools in the country, and this one worries that we expect her to cost us less money (we don’t qualify for aid, D1’s school has no merit $, etc.). We’ve assured her she’s entitled to equal opportunities. But honestly her school could cost $20 or even $30K less a year (if she stays in WI or MN). It’s hard not having an opinion about that! She also knows that saving money here could help her there, eg helping pay for a grad degree or with that crucial 1st year out of a theater program looking for work. So she does think about that, too. </p>

<p>I don’t know how people figure it all out! You just have to take a chance. Which is why we see kids having to change their minds sometimes! (Keep cycling back to the original post…such a fertile subject!)</p>

<p>I think that when one has an obvious choice then it is a lot easier to decide. i.e. that is the kids dream school or the obvious top choice or even it is the only school I got into. But… I have, on this list, seen so many talented kids get into 2,3,4,5 or even more really good schools that I’m really not sure how they can even decide. Even if they will definitely go on to a theater major, there is, I am sure, always the lingering doubt, “would it have been better for me to go to…”. And yes, they definitely have a lot of pressure on them to make the “right” decision. Anyone have any idea what the average freshman dropout rate for all colleges, programs in the USA is? I’ve also read about the “turkey drop” - kids go home for thanksgiving and decide not to return to college for one reason or another.
This article from USA Today:
[A</a> feast of doubts for college freshmen come Thanksgiving - USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-11-12-TurkeyDrop12_ST_N.htm]A”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-11-12-TurkeyDrop12_ST_N.htm)</p>

<p>Thanks for the continued help, Soozie.</p>

<p>Right now, as a semi-newbie (has only been in 4-5 shows, only had one semi-lead, but has done makeup and costumes, assisted directors, has seen gobs and gobs, has read a million books on the subject, can talk you blue about theater history), my D would love to do anything and everything. Looking through the coursework in almost any theater program, BA or BFA, I can see how broad and thorough the education will be. It’s why I love it that she’s settled on theater - I never could have seen her in studio art, or in music alone. This encompasses them all, even in an acting program. It’ll be wonderful. And we have at least 3 safeties - non-audition, nice BAs that she’d be happy going to (UMinn - regular BA, UW-Milwaukee, and Columbia College, and the last 2 have the BFA audition option). So I’m not even really stressing out (much …). I can really sit back and let her look, think and decide. If she gets hyped up about BFAs in 6 mos, at least I’ll know she did her homework.</p>

<p>BUT again she will have to do that homework because she won’t necessarily be happy somewhere JUST because it’s theater. That’s our project for the next year!</p>

<p>One last comment from someone not quite at the end of the process: try to keep as many schools on your D’s list for as long as possible. Buyer’s regret over schools not applied to is common once it becomes too late to do anything about it.</p>

<p>My nephew still thinks badly of himself because he so wanted to drop out of a school at the first Thanksgiving break. He dropped a course and toughed it out, got the credits, then left. He doesn’t understand how proud of him we all are. This mostly was because he got convinced to do a program that he liked but didn’t love, and it was like a conservatory, although not in the arts - an isolated intensive program within a big state U where he felt more and more uncomfortable every day, and less connected with the other students, who all seemed to him perfectly happy with their choice. </p>

<p>Since then he’s completed his general ed at a community college, and is now re-matriculated at the state U in a completely different field (oh, by the way, one I would have paid $1000 that he’d end up in ever since he was a little kid! Written all over him! Not that I think I’m some great prognosticator - it’s just that you can see so often what lights people up, even when they can’t). He’s happy as a lark and finally feeling proud of himself. Of course we were all admired him all along, for having the strength to switch gears and take his time to think.</p>

<p>And that first major was because someone in HS said, Oh, you should do XYZ and go to THIS program, and he felt guilty not taking their advice - I guess it shows that he’s a sweet kid who’s had to learn to be more assertive! </p>

<p>This all takes so much maturity! I admire all of these kids so much.</p>

<p>Thanks for all of the great help, everyone! I feel funny kind of dominating this thread today. I won’t be around tomorrow, so don’t worry!</p>

<p>I do get worried when she drops a school. We visited Lawrence U here in WI last spring, and she loved it. It has a very nice theater dept (our tour guide was a major) and music conservatory and for all of you in other parts of the country it could hold its own with any LAC or small U anywhere. Now after seeing a few more schools she’s saying it’s a little small, a little too familiar, too close to home. Well … I’ll give her that it doesn’t have city access, and if she doesn’t apply, that’s OK. But I’ll pretty much force her to do those UW-Milwaukee and UMinn applications immediately in the fall - she can get acceptances right away, and that will flavor our whole year. We know people at both schools, in theater, and they are great, and great theater towns. I told her that geting those applications done is about all I’ll absolutely insist on. Although I won’t force her to go to them, just to apply. I want her to be comfortable with where she decides to go in Fall 2011. No repeats of my nephew’s experience! Although I’d venture to say that’s she’s a good deal more assertive already than he was at her age …</p>

<p>My D knew from the beginning, she wanted to be in a big university (the bigger the better) in a large city on either the East or West coast. In the USA that pretty much limited her to LA or NYC and London in Europe. Purchase was an option due to the proximity to NYC. As a result she pretty much ruled out a lot of good colleges.</p>

<p>Actually, EmmyBet, it should be Los Angeles or New York. We know (really know…like go to Seder together know, being related know) major casting directors in both cities. I have said this so many times: you’ve got to establish connections early on to get jobs. You’ve got to know that you can’t possibly do anything else. And then, be prepared to do “something” else to survive. I understand “art”, but the business of acting isn’t art, unless you’re Robert deNiro. You must maximize your options.</p>

<p>I’m perfectly willing to believe that is true, for what most people consider a “major career.” If things work out, she’ll go to a program that helps her get connections, provides the showcase opportunities, and puts her in the middle of a fertile professional community.</p>

<p>I also know from my own experience in the arts, from people incorporating the arts into all kinds of life choices, career choices, creative motivations, that it’s a big world out there. I grew up in the east, and have bounced back and forth between it and the midwest until the years are almost equal. Wonderful things happen all over the country. </p>

<p>I’m not going to put any pressure on my D to have an “all or nothing” attitude about theater. If that’s how she feels about it, and she pursues it with that kind of intensity, I hope we can help her as much as possible, and we’ll certainly support her with love and encouragement. </p>

<p>But if she wants to teach theater to non-English-speaking preschoolers while she waits tables or has (eek) a corporate job, that’s great. If she can support herself somehow and write plays at night, that’s great, too. If she joins one of the tremendous theater companies in Wisconsin, or Minnesota, or Chicago, (or any other part of America) that would be fantastic. She’ll have to make her life. I’m not that worried about that part.</p>

<p>We might have to agree to disagree, but I think it’s a big world and a long life and lots of things happen in lots of ways. What I know she wants now is to feast happily on a theater education somewhere she feels good about what she’s doing. We’ll manage that.</p>

<p>I firmly believe that “success” in the arts needs to be defined broadly and generously. It should be based on the individual’s feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction.</p>

<p>I really thought long and hard about posting this, but here goes. I absolutely agree that a degree in the arts can take one to wonderous places and careers. And, often to careers that one didn’t plan on persuing. I firmly agree that we, as parents, should encourage our children (notice that I said children) to pursue their dreams realistically and confidently. </p>

<p>I come from a family that is (with the exception of my husband) in the business. I know what success is because I have seen it. The esoteric of “success” in the arts has to be defined broadly…not so much. We live in an area with many people in the arts. There is nothing more pathetic than a 60 year old male (or older) living off the fame of a parent. They often “assisted” their parent. They sometimes have the name with the Junior. The feeling of accomplishment dissapates when there are bills to be paid. There are unsold masterpieces just waiting…almost…whatever.</p>

<p>There is a life in the arts. But nothing is as pathetic (as happened in our case several times) for an aunt or an uncle cousin or friend of family to come to my kids (age 22 and one, 24 at the time) begging my kids for help. Yes, we all help each other. What’s good for them is good for my kids…blah blah…Reality trumps the feeling of accomplishment done by oneself for one’s own ego. Go into the arts with your eyes wide open.</p>

<p>When I went through this process the first time, the rule of thumb I was given regarding attrition is that around a 2/3 graduation rate is nothing to be too concerned about. If it’s much lower, it might be worth looking a bit deeper to see what the problem is. But, hey … I was on the wrong end of the attrition rate at my first school. :)</p>

<p>As for the rest regarding “success,” I’m going to link a video of an interview with Scott Sedita who has 25 years in the biz and literally wrote the textbook on comedy in TV & Film. He’s very LA oriented, but he pretty much mirrors a good bit of what I’ve thus far observed and been told as about “what it takes” to have sustained success in the biz in general. It’s almost an hour long, but well worth watching and, if nothing else, is a great pep talk for both the kids and parents reading here … [Judy</a> Kerr: Interviews with Industry Insiders: Scott Sedita](<a href=“http://judykerr.com/vid-scottsedita-book.html]Judy”>http://judykerr.com/vid-scottsedita-book.html)</p>

<p>Hey fish, thanks for that link. I just watched it and thought it was very good. So much of it is so true.</p>