My DD (who wants to major in CS) is thinking about applying to Mudd. I’m sure it’s a reach for her. Her test scores are fine / great - 35 ACT (36 math), hopefully she’ll get an 800 (or close) on the Math II subject test right now. Her junior grades are fine, with a (normal) tough schedule. But freshman year she was pretty much straight B’s, and soph year was in the middle. And her ECs are not very interesting - the most interesting thing was her starting a competitive bridge team at her school. I’m sure she’ll have great recs, as she goes to a very small school.
Anyway - my main question is about fit. She did Operation Catapult at Rose Hulman, and absolutely loved it. Small school, working hard with lots of friendly nerdy boys (she thinks she gets along better with boys) - she had a great time. RHIT might be her #1 choice right now. Even though initially when I dropped her off in this small town in the middle of fields as far as the eye can see, she said “Dad, please don’t make me go to college here!!!” IOW, I think she’s fine with Terre Haute, but the geography might be a minus.
We also toured some (non-technical) LACs - Wellesley and Brandeis. She HAAAATED them. We also saw Olin College. She’s a little bit afraid that that’s too small, with only 90 kids per class.
So obviously visiting Mudd would be helpful. But I was wondering if people could give me feedback in advance. She’s a nerdy, somewhat quirky kid (she likes reading the Physician’s Desk Reference in her spare time ???). She is not a super-competitive genius, writing research papers already kind-of kid.
I like Harvey Mudd for CS. It’s brutally hard but your DD seems to have the chops.
Not sure why the focus on such small schools. Except for Harvey Mudd, I would focus on smaller research universities like Rochester, RPI, Tufts, Johns Hopkins.
There are also a lot of great large schools. What’s driving the push for really small schools?
Her test scores sound solid. Not sure about her grades, but at least the upward trend should help. She does need to take calculus before she graduates (Mudd is one of only a few schools that require calculus). She also needs to take 2 subject tests (one of them being Math 2). There are the “writing research papers already” kind of kids at Mudd, but there are “normal smart” kids (like my S) there too. Likewise with the EC’s.
It also seems like it would be the small school she appears to like without being “too small” or “too isolated”. With the consortium she would be among about 5,000 other students (with Mudd at about 800). And Claremont it is a suburb with plenty to do and a great little downtown. And, of course, being part of LA area there is plenty to do within driving distance.
I would highly recommend a tour if you can swing it. There’s were one of the best tours we took. They actually take you into the resident halls, labs and classrooms, and both times we were on a tour we actually ran into a professor (different one each time) who stopped and took the time to welcome us and share a little about the school.
It seems like a great fit. My D didn’t have the best GPA (3.7 GPA), but had great test scores and some solid/interesting ECs. She should definitely visit. My D also did Op Catapult. She didn’t love Terra Haute and found the students & “counselors” to be too conservative for her taste. So she didn’t apply to RH (but she did like her project & team there, and several Op Catapult people from her year are at Mudd with her). It is, of course, a reach, but she should give it a shot.
What do you mean by Rose Hulman being “conservative”? Politically?
Her high school is small, and she has ADHD, and I think small classes really benefit her.
We visited U of Rochester - and she hated that too. She has very strong opinions - though possibly not based on a lot… She’s also applying to RPI. We visited RIT as well, and that was the school that she loved (before RHIT).
One comment she made to me “I loved Rose Hulman - but maybe there are other schools that I would love too?” It seems hard to really know what a school would be like.
How competitive vs collegial are the students?
Isn’t Mudd technically a LAC (whatever that means)? But are most / all of the kids technical? It seems like all of the majors are STEM.
Yes, politically. PM me if you want to discuss in detail.
Mudd is technically an LAC, but all majors are STEM. (Math, physics, bio, and chem are all part of liberal arts, after all). There are humanities courses offered at Mudd – I think including the writing course, they need to take at least 11 non-STEM courses. The writing course and five other humanities courses need to be taken at Mudd, and they can take the others at the other 5Cs if they want to. My kid has fit in a couple more non-STEM classes beyond that.
Each Mudder has a secondary non-STEM concentration, which they achieve by taking four classes in the same area (part of those 11 humanities classes). My kid did hers in literature. She has a friend who did history. She has really liked getting to cross register at the other 5Cs – she has taken classes at all of them.
My kid was a CS major for about a year before switching back to her first love, physics. She did CS research on campus her first two summers, which she also really liked. Mudd is really committed to giving frosh a summer research experience if they want one.
She has found the environment very collaborative. It is intense – the core is very difficult. But 1st semester is pass/fail, which helps reduce competition. I don’t think the grades are curved, so students don’t have an incentive to hoard knowledge. There is grade deflation. Fewer than 10 students have graduated with 4.0s in the history of the school. Average GPA at graduation is around 3.3, I think. They house frosh in the same dorms with older students, and encourage them to mentor & help younger students.
You should take your kid to visit – most kids who belong at Mudd know when they visit. It either is their tribe or it isn’t.
Yeah, her grades are definitely not great. UW is 3.42. At least in naviance, our school has had 3 students admitted with an average GPA of 3.65 - so maybe the grading is a little harsher than other schools. Regardless, she probably has a chance…
She is taking calculus now. She was on track to do AB, but passed the AB CLEP over the summer, and is now in BC. Not sure if it’s going to stick however. She’s doing OK - but she’s not nearly as prepared as the other kids.
What kind of fall visits do they have (i.e. overnight?) Can you go to classes? Can I go to the classes too??? (As a CS person, I would definitely be curious to sit in on an intro CS class.)
In summary it defines it as:
Undergraduate focus
Baccalaureate degrees
Small size
Liberal arts curriculum
Faculty focus on teaching
Focus on community
Residential
Mudd fits this definition. Yes, the majors are all STEM, but they are expected to have a very broad education. Not only is 1/3 of their education in the humanities, but even within their STEM Core classes they are required to take classes in all the STEM subjects. So every student regardless of major would still take math,CS, physics, chem, bio and engineering courses in the first 3 semesters at Mudd.
Parents don’t usually sit in on classes anyplace… My kid did not overnight until accepted student visits (they paid her airfare from the Midwest for that visit, though). So not sure about fall visits. I am pretty sure she could go to a class.
(Note: Not open to parents…However, during Family Weekend some classes are open to parents but of course, that would be after your D was already a student).
@intparent and @ClaremontMom can fill in the details on this, but for the Intro CS class, we were told that there are color-coded levels of the class ranging from “having programmed before” to “have been programming since 5th grade.”
My DS17 sat in on a Discrete Math class and enjoyed it.
They have the whole 5Cs open to take classes in addition to the Mudd hum classes (as they call them). Typically different hum classes are offered first & second semester, too, so over time there is variety. The first year students usually take mostly core with one hum class along with it (at least my kid did). That was true for the first three semesters. Then she usually had 1-2 hums per semester after that. I just looked, and at Mudd she took 2 lit classes, one religion class (some kind of class on Islam?), and a psych class. She needs to take one more Mudd hum next semester (is thinking about some kind of book binding class that is offered). The rest of the hum classes she has taken are at the other 5Cs. This semester she is taking a drawing class at Pitzer and a lit class at Scripps.
Yes, there is CS 5 Black and CS 5 Green - absolutely no experience but green has a bio focus. CS 5 Gold has some experience and CS 42 are those with a lot of experience. But all are considered intro classes for first year students.
I couldn’t find an equivalent of this on the Mudd site, but as intparent stated the registration is for all the 5C’s. So here is a catalog on the Scripps site.
You’ll see there are many offerings in the humanities across all the 5C’s. Though there is a requirement that some number of them be taken at Mudd. More info on HSA here; https://www.hmc.edu/hsa/the-hsa-program/
On Thursday 11/10, I think she’ll go to the intro to CS class. Probably the 9:35 - 10:50am class in “BK B126” (is “BK” Beckman Hall?). Then she has the tour at 11-noon, interview 2 - 2:30, and info session at 2:30 (I know, it’s stupid that it’s after the interview, but I didn’t see any alternative).
If we stay over to Friday (and AFAICT there are normal classes on Veteran’s Day), any suggestion on classes to attend? I saw these on Friday that might be interesting:
10-10:50: Evolutionary Bio
11 - 11:50: Math of Games & Puzzles
1:15 - 4: Econ: ReprsntingEconomy:Children’s Lit
3-5 Intro to Bio & Comp Sci"
9 or noon or 2:45 - Engineering System Practicum (What is this?)
It seems like the Econ class is about the only non-STEM class on Friday. And that seems rather long for something that she’s probably not going to follow.
Sounds like you have a busy day! Though part of the day you’ll have time to walk around the campuses and explore while your D is in class. Anyhow, to answer some of your questions. Yes, I would assume BK is Beckman Hall (but you can always ask), and yes, there are classes on Friday (not a holiday). Engineering System practicum is a 3rd semester Core class. I believe it’s the lab portion of the Engineering Systems class.
I’d suggest having lunch in the dining hall (looks like you have a break from 12-2). Check in the admissions and see if they can give your D a pass. We found that some schools do that (usually for interviews, not for tours) and IIRC Mudd did that for us when my S interviewed there — but I could be mistaken.
Is admissions giving you these course options? It is usually a good idea to check with the prof via email ahead of time to see if it is okay for her to sit in. Sometimes they have midterms or something that makes that day a bad choice.
She’s also applying to RPI. We visited RIT as well, and that was the school that she loved (before RHIT).