Florida v. Zimmerman

<p>Zimmerman was on neighborhood watch for how long? Had lived in that not too big complex for how long? And didn’t know what street he was at, and had to get out and look?</p>

<p>Sounds like an excuse or lie for why he got out of car.</p>

<p>Struck by how stone cold he was in talking about killing someone, which seemed consistent with his description of “fight” where after saying he heard Martin say “you got me” he rolls on top of him and holds him down. </p>

<p>Not someone who says OMG! What have I done! Whether justified or not.</p>

<p>“John Good testified that he saw Martin pushing downward on Zimmerman. That is consistent with Zimmerman’s claim that Martin covered his mouth as Zimmerman tried to continue yelling for help.”</p>

<p>How can you have an uninterrupted yells with a person on top of you covering your mouth? Even if GZ is able to move his face around getting away from the hand, how could that be an uninterrupted yells? And at this exact moment, he reached for the gun and shot the kid, one of his hand was not free to deflect anything. After listening to it, I can’t get around that in my head.</p>

<p>exactly, and as has been noted there were three streets, in the entire community. he knew to deny that he was following TM, by creating this alibi for getting out of his car. </p>

<p>All of a sudden he was not the pursuer? meanwhile during the reconstruction he does indicate he was “looking for him, and telling the non emergency person I don’t know where he went” He lied saying the non emergency person asked him if he could see where TM went. that didn’t happen…</p>

<p>It helps the Sandford PD save face if they seem to have had good reason not to charge Zimmerman initially. Everyone made the same assumption Zimmerman made -that Trayvon was a “suspect.” A lot went unchallenged and now it comes in wholesale. </p>

<p>Gotta hope the prosecution has a plan to counter the self-serving statements with forensics.</p>

<p>yes, JAMCAFE, they all accepted GZ’s version as gospel and are maintaining that now means the Sanford PD keep their original story intact, nothing here to see, move along…I didn’t understand how the lead detective kept pointing out that there were no inconsistencies, when there are. And him calling GZ a victim, ugh. Biased anyone?</p>

<p>I sure hope the prosecution gets some passion behind their presentation.</p>

<p>Kluge, you need to check out both sides of the argument or else you end up believing stats like 90% of Americans are for universal background checks. If that whopper was true, it would be political suicide for anyone to vote against it, yet it didn’t pass. It was a bogus survey in a very select Northeast town where they knew they could pull those numbers. I might as well so the same survey in rural Texas.</p>

<p>Another giant lie that they told was how bad the gun show/internet loophole is. The instance they kept showing on CNN of a guy buying with no background check was equivalent to a gas station clerk not Id’ing a teenager for beer. Everyone that has a booth at a gun show is required by law to perform a background check. Every gun seller over the internet is also required by law to perform a background check, or else they are breaking the law. The only time these come into play is this: I’m walking around a gun show browsing and so are you. You and me strike up a conversation about the gun you brought with you and is in your car, I walk out to your car and purchase it through a private sell. If someone advertised on Craig’s list is an example of how it could work on the internet. We talk over the web and meet up and both agree to a transaction. Using a “want ad” in the paper, or just agreeing with my neighbor in conversation to a transaction would also be considered a private sell. There are no massive sales going on without background checks, except for by criminals. In the last ten years my father who goes to as many as he possibly can, has never seen a vendor not give him a background check. I know this to be true because of experience, and yet look at how lopsided they tried to make this loophole seem. You won’t find that information on any liberal media site, and only a few conservative sites were even able to explain this as well. They lied through their teeth about these things, knowing that most people aren’t familiar with guns enough to question it.</p>

<p>General consensus from the TV legal experts I’ve seen is that the prosecution is screwing the pooch royally so far, and that GZ’s defense team would be foolish to put him on the stand.</p>

<p>Does this mean all the “Closet Clouseau” types on this thread will now add the prosecutor’s office into the great conspiracy theory along with the Sanford PD? :)</p>

<p>I am so angry that the major cable news networks have seen fit to televise the trial all day, as if there aren’t a plethora of more important news stories going on. If anyone wants to spend their day listening to the excruciatingly boring testimony, one channel should be sufficient. Some of us are interested in what’s going on in Egypt, who has responsibility for the death of all those firefighters, etc. Cable news is pathetic. CNN used to be able to prioritize and be the news network of record, as it were. Now it’s down in the dirt scrambling with the others for ratings. Shameful.</p>

<p>I think most of us have a problem that a 17 year old was killed. Does that bother you?</p>

<p>tom…Many of us have a problem with shootings in other places as well. Don’t you?</p>

<p>[Leslie</a> Freeman Shot: Chicago Mom, Baby Son Shot Over Weekend That Left 2 Dead, At Least 24 Injured](<a href=“Leslie Freeman Shot: Chicago Mom, Baby Son Shot Over Weekend That Left 2 Dead, At Least 24 Injured | HuffPost Chicago”>Leslie Freeman Shot: Chicago Mom, Baby Son Shot Over Weekend That Left 2 Dead, At Least 24 Injured | HuffPost Chicago)</p>

<p>lindz, that didn’t add up for the police either. Really? In a neighborhood with three streets you don’t know where you are? Zimmerman also made what I consider a critical mistake when trying to explain that away–he said he wasn’t good with details or something to that effect.</p>

<p>raiders, can you please not derail this thread or get it shut down with the gun debate?</p>

<p>^lots of 17 year olds are killed every day…mostly black on black crime…not sure why this death is more important than any other</p>

<p>I am surprised how many posters are sure that Zimmerman is guilty of murder. Based on the CC posters Zimmerman would have been found guilty many months ago. </p>

<p>I learned years ago not to believe everything I read. I was sure the Duke lacrosse players were guilty based on the ‘evidence’ presented in the media. Then truth came out and I was absolutely wrong.</p>

<p>Good thing we have our justice system. I don’t know what happened that night but I am sure the jury will do their job.</p>

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<p>Here, here!</p>

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<p>There are differences between factual evidence, opinion, and argument.</p>

<p>Most witnesses can testify only to facts that they observed, or to lay a foundation to bringing in physical or documentary evidence. If there are other facts that contradict whatever they say, it will generally need to be brought forth through the testimony of a different witness. In some cases a contradiction can be brought out in cross-examination, but that only works when you are directly challenging the witness. That is, if GZ were testifying and said TM jumped out of the bushes at point X, a lawyer on cross-examination could bring out the fact that there were no bushes at point X. </p>

<p>But if you are asking the police officer who took the statement – she is only testifying to the fact that the statement was made. If she took the statement at the police station, then she is not in a position to testify as to whether there were any bushes or not. On the other hand, if the question were posed to an officer who was also present when GZ was taken on the walk through, the question could be posed to the officer: “did you see any bushes” there.</p>

<p>I’d add that GZ’s statements are admissible under an exception to the hearsay rule, as an “admission” – that is, the reason that the prosecution can introduce the statements is NOT that they give GZ’s side of the story, but only because they contain admissions of wrongdoing on his part. </p>

<p>As to opinion: only a duly qualified expert can give an opinion on most things (except the sort of things that would be within anyone’s ability, such as estimating distance). At the same time, expert opinion can’t be used to supplant the stuff that is expected to fall within common knowledge. So an “expert” for the prosecution might be helpful to point out some problems with GZ’s account – such as whether or not it would have been possible or likely for TM to sit up and make a statement after being shot. But whether or not there were bushes is not a something for expert testimony – but that could be brought out through direct factual testimony, perhaps by a police officer who took measurements and photographs of the crime scene. </p>

<p>So some of the contradictions will be brought out through other witnesses, testimony, and exhibits – but it may be protracted and not immediately obvious how all the dots are connected. A good attorney will try to make the relevance of testimony clear during the course of testimony, but in some cases it may not be clear until the point where the prosecutor gives his closing argument. (And a good prosecutor will also hold back on some points that aren’t so obvious, so as not to tip off the defense as to the entire argument). </p>

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<p>The prosecution would not have introduced GZ’s statements unless they were pretty certain that they could counter them – they aren’t required to let the jury hear GZ’s side of the story in their case in chief. It only helps their case if it supports a narrative that GZ shot TM, and then lied to the police about what happened.</p>

<p>Someone tells me I have a warped view I am going to respond. I am absolutely not trying to change the topics in this thread.</p>

<p>Charlottemom, another poster got slammed here for mentioning the Duke LAX case. I understand the point you are trying to make. Just saying that there is the legal outcome and the moral outcome. In this case, a kid is dead at the hands of a wanna-be cop hero. He is guilty of killing him. Whether or not GZ gets convicted, the fact remains that there is blood on his hands and that it didn’t have to happen.</p>

<p>(Sorry I wasn’t clear before.)</p>

<p>geeps do you see a difference between an innocent 17 year old walking home and gang violence. While both are tragic I see a difference. Do you see a difference in a gang member killing another gang member and an innocent bystander killed during gang violence?</p>

<p>Wolverine I have concern about all innocents killed. Start a thread about that and I will comment.
Just because we discuss this tragic event does not mean those other killings do not bother us.</p>

<p>You must not have read my post - I wasn’t comparing the Duke lacrosse case to this case. I was stating the fact that the ‘evidence’ presented in the media is not always true.</p>

<p>The facts have not all been presented. Let the jury do their job and don’t be so quick to condemn someone when you don’t know what actually happened.</p>