<p>For some students, would there be no safeties?</p>
<p>Since a safety must be a sure thing in admissions and affordability, and must be a school that the student wants to attend, could a picky student not be able to find any safeties?</p>
<p>For example, suppose a high achieving student would be dispirited by attending a school with a large number of lower achieving students, even though there would be a significant number of other high achieving students (e.g. many state flagships) and would only be satisfied with the type of student peer group found at super-selective schools. Could this student find any safeties at all, since anything with admissions selectivity low enough to be a safety would have a large number of lower achieving students?</p>
<p>So they don’t hang out with the low-achieving riff-raff. What’s the issue?</p>
<p>I don’t think being “dispirited” ever killed anyone. And any student who can’t handle having to work hard to find intellectual peers or “making do” with those who have different gifts has bigger problems. The hypothetical student you describe sounds like a spoiled prince(ss).</p>
<p>It would be pretty self-defeating to not “adjust” one’s thinking in such a situation. Imagine just NOT going to college because no school that would have an individual is “good enough”! It seems ridiculous when it’s boiled down.</p>
<p>If the family thinks it would be better for the student not to go to college that year than “have” to go to a safety with “lower achieving” classmates, then sure it would be fine to have no safeties. Be sure to have a plan for taking a gap year or not attending college at all.</p>
<p>But at virtually any college one attends their will be both lower and higher achieving classmates. Much of what one gets out of college depends on what you put in - it is possible to get a great education at the large majority of colleges and universities in the U.S., and it is probably possible to get a mediocre education at one of the Ivy League universities if you don’t put in the effort.</p>
<p>There are plenty of students with no true safeties. Someone who turns down the state flagship because s/he thinks that he won’t be able to find a peer group is not one of them. Even at schools like the University of Wyoming, approximately 10% of students had an ACT score of 30+. That’s about 1,000 potential peers, whose scores reflect their natural abilities rather than how well they prepped for tests (in states where admission to the flagship is all but assured, test prep is almost unheard of).</p>
<p>Now if the same 33 ACT student lived in the Dominguez Hills service area, and could only afford a Cal State, or lived in Wyoming but wants to study musical theater, then no, s/he doesn’t have a safety. Many extremely poor students, regardless of whether they live in Eastern Oklahoma or the middle of Chicago also lack a safety school. I’d much rather worry about those students (excluding the MT one) than someone who thinks himself vastly superior to everyone else in the state.</p>
<p>In our state, even state schools are not always affordable nor are they known for good need-based aid.</p>
<p>The only true safety school for many kids is the local community college (and of course, that works for 2 years). High performing kids might be able to get into a 100% need aid school, but many can’t get in to those.</p>
<p>For high performance kids, I agree that it would be annoying to have any who couldn’t find a safety at either a good merit private school or an affordable state school. Those kids do sound spoiled. Having gone to a state school myself (as did my other half), there’s absolutely nothing wrong with them and a good student can get a great education with plenty of opportunities. There are plenty of schools that offer $$ to high stat kids.</p>
<p>The only choice I had in going to college was which community college I wanted to go to. CC1 or CC2. My parents gave me no money for school, i didnt qualify for financial aid, and i didnt get scholarships. i couldnt afford even the cheapest state school. I didn’t want to go to either, but I wanted an education so I adjusted my attitude. I think kids who are lucky enough to have choices get the option of a safety they can both afford and would like to attend, the rest of us have to take what we can get and get over it. Most people do have a lot fewer choices for college than the people here do.</p>
<p>My bad. When I read the title of this thread, “snotty factor” never came to mind. I’m sure there are students like this, but why are we wasting time on those little dears?</p>
<p>There certainly are students with no safeties. From my personal experience, here are three:
(1) The student who was “directed” to work at the family retail store after HS;
(2) The student who was convicted of a 4th-degree felony while in HS;
(3) The ADHD student who started but did not complete college applications.</p>
<p>The CC community lives in rarified air, educationally speaking. My niece is a GC at an inner-city HS. That HS is hoping to send their top student to a directional state university this year. That’s reality for the school’s 800 seniors.</p>
<p>This student, who cannot bear the thought of not being with people he or she considers intellectual peers, has bigger problems than finding a college. No, there is no safety. And probably no suitable job. </p>
<p>This student may be ready for the academic rigors of college, but apparently did not learn the other, mor important lessons along the way.</p>
<p>Oh please. Even community colleges have smart students. The student should be focusing on their goal. If they are THAT high achieving, there are tons of colleges that should be able to meet their needs. And they will find smart kids at all of them. Might not be HYPSM, or equivalents…but sheesh…there are 3000 colleges!</p>
<p>This has got to win an award for the biggest nonproblem ever.</p>
<p>Lots of kids have no true safety, but the kid who is just too wonderful for the schools who accept him is going to have a world of problems his whole life.</p>
<p>^90% of Tufts is in the top 10% of their high school class and the admissions rate is 21% Who ever got the idea that Tufts would be a safety for anyone?</p>
<p>But there are plenty of safeties for a high achieving student who is willing to compromise on some of their wants.</p>
<p>Where’s the like button? Most 4-year schools have some group of students who are outstanding and are there because 1) it’s financially affordable, 2) family history, 3) because they think it’s a perfectly good decision for them. See the post re: Wyoming. </p>
<p>Another example in our state where UofM and MSU are expensive and increasingly difficult to get into is Northern Michigan. It’s cheap. It is rolling with posted auto-admit information, it gives good merit scholarship for GPA and ACT. It also accepts at risk students and those with low GPA into a special program. On the flip side 16% of the matriculating class had GPAs of 3.75 and 4% of the freshman scored higher than 30 on the ACT and it is located in a great town and has a beautiful campus. Sometimes kid just need a slap upside the head.</p>
<p>I actually find this particularly amusing. Just had the talk with D3 last week about how she is used to being at the top of her class and very high performing, but how things will be different at her state flagship because the majority of kids that will be there are JUST LIKE HER. They graduated in the top 10% of their class, their SAT scores are good (a lot of kids don’t study for testing here either - top 10% are auto admit to public colleges), they have taken lots of AP and dual classes, they have been involved in a lot of extra-curricular activities and community service.</p>
<p>So she’ll have to adjust to that and realize that she’s not the top of the heap anymore.</p>
<p>Just funny to me the general feel of superiority that I suppose some may have.</p>
<p>I just feel sorry for people who think Tufts might be a safety - sensitive today because someone mentioned it in the same breath as Mt. Holyoke yesterday. (Mt. H is a fine school BTW and a great safety for a top student - Tufts is a great school, but much more selective.) Every year students are convinced that because HYP (name one) accepted them the fact that Tufts didn’t is only because of “Tufts syndrome”. Nope they are looking for a slightly different profile and they are selective enough they don’t take every high stat student.</p>
<p>But back to the OP - here are my thoughts about where top students should look for safeties.</p>
<ol>
<li>Science engineering types - look at the smaller, or slightly less selective tech schools - RPI, WPI, Rose Hulman, Colorado School of Mines etc. (Take a look at SAT score ranges for those schools and you’ll be pleasantly surprised.)</li>
<li>Young men look at LACs, especially formally women’s colleges.</li>
<li>Young women, look at the smaller tech schools - you’ve got even better chances than your male counterparts.</li>
<li>Look at schools that are really strong in your major even if they aren’t as highly ranked over all. My example is American for International Relations - it even has an honors program if that appeals.</li>
<li>Look at honors programs at large schools. Or just look at large schools - find a small major at that large school.</li>
<li>Apply to as many EA/rolling admissions/priority application schools as you can, and 1-5 might not even be necessary.</li>
</ol>
<p>From what I’ve read on CC, some people believe that for the most academically talented and accomplished students, attending a school in which the entire student population is made up of the ‘best and the brightest’ provides an academic and social experience that is worlds apart from what those top students would find anywhere else. Missing out on that could be dispiriting, and could even reduce odds of finding a suitable marriage partner.</p>
<p>I’m sorry. That made me laugh a little. …ahem.</p>
<p>Do these people plan to enter the general population at some point in their lives? If not, then okay…</p>
<p>But most people live in the real world, made up of all sorts of people. :)</p>
<p>Yes, of course, if you can…a school with only the best and brightest.</p>
<p>But we’re talking about a “safety” here. In my mind that means a SAFE bet, an alternative to the ideal, but one you would CONSIDER if your best plan fails.</p>