<p>^^Sometimes I think that the reduced odds of finding a “suitable” marriage partner is really at the heart of some CC parents’ concern about their kids going to a school where everyone is not an academic superstar. They would certainly not want the family gene pool to be polluted with someone from a state school or, heaven forbid, a directional.</p>
<p><strong><em>gasp!!!</em></strong></p>
<p>Haha, Joblue. Funny that some of these people are the same ones who tsk-tsk the young women at Ole Miss or SMU who are open about going for their “Mrs.” degree by joining certain sororities and associating with the “right” young men.</p>
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Despite what the others above have said, the answer is yes. If you have to go to the prom with your sister, because none of the girls you really liked would go with you, it’s not the end of the world, but let’s not pretend that you have to be happy about it.</p>
<p>Remember, a true safety is a school where you will definitely be admitted. For kids with the stats to get into the very most selective schools, schools that will absolutely, definitely accept them may be quite a lot less selective. Tufts is not a safety school, even for kids with the stats to get into Harvard. The state flagship might be a safety school in terms of admissions for such a kid, but he may not want to go there.</p>
<p>This is why I think a safety school shouldn’t be defined as a school the student “wants to attend.” It should be defined as a school that will meet the student’s needs if he finds that the schools he prefers don’t admit him.</p>
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<p>For some young people, finding a partner who is an intellectual equal is important. They don’t feel compatible with people who are very much less academic (or more academic) than they are. (One of my now-grown kids is like this.)</p>
<p>Young people who feel this way shouldn’t have a problem finding suitable partners at state flagships. There are plenty of very smart kids at these schools who are there for financial reasons. Directionals are a different matter.</p>
<p>Re the OP’s kid’s situation: Finding suitable safety schools is especially difficult for kids whose tastes run to small schools. Sometimes, it’s necessary to suck it up and use a large school as a safety, even though the kid doesn’t especially like a large-school atmosphere. </p>
<p>One option here might be to look at large schools that have honors or special interest programs for freshmen. Such programs can make a large campus seem smaller. One such school is my son’s alma mater, the University of Maryland at College Park. A large proportion of the freshmen are in one special program or another. However, I’m not sure whether UMCP could ever be considered a safety for an out-of-state applicant. (In-state, yes. But I don’t know how hard it is for out-of-staters to get in.)</p>
<p>Do you think a kid whose strong ambition is to go to one of the service academies has a “true safety?” Would you scoff at that kid for not being happy if he doesn’t gain admission to one of the academies?</p>
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<p>I agree… and this is not a person I would hire if I had in inkling of their attitude.</p>
<p>It is certainly possible for a kid to have no true 4-yr college safety if finances are factored in. </p>
<p>A kid with an EFC of just about 0 could easily be unable to afford their state university. That kid needs to get into a school that actually meets need, and such schools fall into the “not a true safety for anyone” category. The only alternative would be to win one of the very rare full ride merit scholarships, and by full ride I mean full COA. Those are obviously not safeties in any sense. A school that offers merit awards isn’t going to do it: even $30k off of a $50K bill won’t work, and that is a huge merit award.</p>
<p>That was my kid.</p>
<p>Hunt, there are plenty of other schools that are somewhat like the service academies (Cal Maritime, VMI, the Citadel, etc). Then there are the huge number of schools which offer ROTC. A student doesn’t need to actually earn the ROTC scholarship to participate in the program. A friend at Berkeley is doing this, and will likely be invited to OCS at the end of her college career</p>
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When you put it that way, it sounds bad. When you put it in terms of wanting to study with mostly accomplished and motivated students, it doesn’t sound so bad. If a kid said, “I really would like to go to Juilliard, because all the musicians there are first-rate, and I’d like to study with them,” would you have the same reaction? If your kid thinks he’s good enough to play on the travel soccer team, do you tell him he’d be just as happy on the rec team? After all, some really good players choose to play on the rec team.</p>
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Sure. But do you think a kid who really wanted to go to one of the academies should “want to attend” one of these? Or is it OK for him or her to be really disappointed when he doesn’t get what he was aiming for? I get that people have to make do, and have to get over disappointments, and have to move on, etc. I just don’t get this idea that people with educational ambitions are all a bunch of whiny snobs.</p>
<p>Must be a slow news day …</p>
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<p>Because that seems to be a focus of these forums. Indeed, in another long concurrent [url=<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1515270-end-ivy-league-we-know-19.html]thread[/url”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1515270-end-ivy-league-we-know-19.html]thread[/url</a>] (279, 283, 285, 290, etc.), there are posts discussing whether a high achieving student would be dispirited going to a state flagship university versus a highly selective university.</p>
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<p>I agree, but reading other threads on these forums indicates that many students and parents do consider this non-problem to be a problem for themselves or their kids. (Remember andi’s son who got shut out, took a gap year, and applied successfully to other schools? Looks like he had no safeties in either the first or second lists.)</p>
<p>There is also quite a bit of disdain around here for students who start at a community college and then transfer to a four year school to complete their bachelor’s degrees. In some cases, this disdain may eliminate a perfectly viable safety option for many students.</p>
<p>What annoys me sometimes about these kinds of discussions is how black and white some opinions seem to be. Why can’t it be the case that some kids would be some degree happier at a highly selective university than they would be at a state flagship?</p>
<p>Hunt, I think you are missing the point. EVERYONE needs “worst-case scenarios” in life. The truly brilliant, most ambitious students should be able to succeed in any environment. The hypothetical student the OP described IS whiny and snobbish because he/she presumably refuses to even share air space with “lesser” humans. (Remember, ucb said “suppose a high achieving student would be dispirited by attending a school with a large number of lower achieving students, even though there would be a significant number of other high achieving students (e.g. many state flagships”).) I think most of us here would find such a person insufferable. Boo hoo…how tragic to have to be “dispirited” in such a way.</p>
<p>ETA: no one is saying the student wouldn’t be some degree happier at his/her first choice. The backup-plan safety is not generally going to inspire the same passion as the more scarce commodity. A lot of this has to do with “losing” gracefully and making the best of whatever hand one is dealt.</p>
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<p>It may depend on whether s/he thinks that doing ROTC at another school is an acceptable backup (though if s/he needs a full ROTC scholarship, then that cannot be counted on as a safety).</p>
<p>But this image of the insufferable person is, in my opinion, being projected onto people who simply want to go to really selective colleges because they think that’s the best fit for them. If selectivity–and being around mostly highly accomplished peers while in college–is an important factor for a student, that plays a factor in deciding what makes a good safety. It may be that you’ll end up choosing a safety that doesn’t really provide that particular fit factor, just as you might have to do for any other fit factor that’s important to you.</p>
<p>The little linguistic thing that’s making this whole discussion problematic is the idea that your safety should be a school you “want to attend.” Well, again, it doesn’t have to be so black and white–it might be a school you’d be OK attending if all the other ones you prefer don’t come through–but for lots of kids it’s just not realistic to think they will want to attend the safety as much as their other choices.</p>
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<p>If the student had high enough stats, wouldn’t some of the <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-18.html#post15895768[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-18.html#post15895768</a> be safety candidates? Of course, if the student refuses to go to school in the south, or to an HBU, or otherwise categorically eliminates all of the full ride schools that s/he qualifies for, then s/he may not have any safeties.</p>
<p>I think we’re getting tangled up in the definition of “safety.”</p>
<p>A few points:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>An ideal “safety” school is one that the student can definitely get in to, the family can definitely afford, and the student would like to attend.</p></li>
<li><p>Some people will identify and apply to a school that meets this definition. Others won’t.</p></li>
<li><p>Those who don’t find a school that meets this definition should apply to a college that they can definitely get in to and that their family can definitely afford, even if they don’t especially like it. Otherwise, they could find themselves not going to college at all.</p></li>
<li><p>Not applying to a safety school because you can’t find a safety that you love is extremely risky. It’s far better to apply to a less-than-ideal safety school.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I agree with Marian. Both of my kids had safeties, because we insisted on it. They were good schools, and they would have been fine in many ways. But my kids (and their parents) would have been pretty disappointed if they had ended up at one of the safeties. They had enough reaches and matches that we thought this was pretty unlikely, but not unlikely enough not to have the safeties. It would have been great if they’d had safeties that they loved, but they didn’t.</p>
<p>Note to parents: never badmouth the safety during the process–instead, talk about how great it is. That reduces the stress level, whatever the outcome.</p>
<p>Mom3Boys - Northern Michigan is in the UP…Lots of snow. I agree with your statement to a point but perhaps one of the other colleges down in the Mitten could work as well.</p>
<p>Sally305 - Wow, I didn’t realize that girls still went to college for their Mrs degree… I’ll have to tell my DS to be on the lookout for one when he starts college in the fall.:)</p>