For Those Who Got Into Multiple Top 20s/Ivies/HYPSMC, WHY Do You Think?

Applying to College
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First of all congratulations to everyone on their accomplishments, whether you got into HYSPMC or CC. Just being done with high school is a big deal.

I was lurking on the Ivy Day thread these last couple of weeks and I was struck by the number of unhooked (not URMs, not Athletes and based on sheer number could not be a legacy EVERYWHERE and not Intel Finalist) applicants who had already been accepted or gotten likely letters from more than one USNWR Top 20 Elite (whatever the definition).

For those who got in MULTIPLE TIMES, I really want to understand WHY (of course for selfish reasons as I have a younger child). In most cases it seemed the person had REALLY good but not perfect stats (3.9UW, 2300).

If you are unhooked and got in multiple places, why do YOU think you got in?

What were your stats?

Are you a better writer? (I think this is a big one, having a genuine voice that has not been polluted by an English teacher or paid coach, Do you agree?)

Did you raise millions for orphans, invent an app used by everyone? (and if you did are you part of that BELOW 3.7/2200 club?)

Is it your school, is it a feeder (does that even happen?) Does your GC have H’s president on speed dial (again does that even happen?!)

Do something else?

Was there a reason you got into those particular schools (eg accepted UPenn and Columbia and Dartmouth, rejected Cornell) and rejected from others?

There are people who got Yale and no other but the more common pattern seems to be you get nothing (or perhaps a couple of top WLs) or get 3-5 or MORE schools that many would want. While I understand someone getting 1 or 2, given the crap shoot aspect, how is it that lightening is striking that many times in the same place and completely skipping the 2400/4.0 Class President in the next building?

I realize people should go to the school that suits them, which may be the #50 school and I know more than one kid that made that choice, whether for money or personal preference. However, sometimes the school that suits them best happens to be a prestigious one.

Yes I have read the advice over and over, if you cannot afford to donate a building, then be genuine, follow your passion where ever that leads you. Get involved and take APs and get As in them. Study hard for the SATs and subject tests and do the best you possibly can. Then relax and have fun! I personally think fit is BS unless you are talking about a clear introvert who justs wants to research going to UMichigan Ross or Duke or a party animal who talks about going out every night applying to a school like JHU. For everyone else, I think you can be equally happy at Dartmouth and Columbia (the two everyone always brings up as being SO different.)

I realize similar questions have been posted over and over but I am interested in the recent student/parent perspective as to WHY they think it happened. For example, when my kid applied to college, some time ago, while her stats were in line for every place, though not perfect, but good enough, I can think of a reason why she got in to every place she did. For some it was legacy that gave her that little boost, for one she had a really compelling reason for wanting to go to THAT school and discussed it in her essay, for some they like her school and for some her stats were just much higher than their 75%. The rejections were more confusing although she got none that were a “shock” fortunately, a couple of WLs from target schools she did not show interest in which she refused.

Speaking of rejections, the ones that always confuse me are the poster who says, got into H, S and Y but was deferred SCEA Princeton and then rejected. Confusing, a lot

Congratulations!

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The applicants themselves aren’t a good judge. Their sample is simply too small. The reason why they think got them in one school may be the same reason they weren’t accepted in another peer school.

Again, this another “what’s the formula? what’s the pattern?” question. My assertion is this is a Quixotic task – beyond one adjective: excellence.

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There are things that can help an applicant (good grades, scores, essays) and ways to improve a profile, but when RD acceptance rates are at or below 5% at a number of top 20 schools, there’s a lot of randomness involved. I think writing ability definitely helped me - this is one step of the process where social science/humanities students have an edge over STEM-heavy applicants - and my grades, scores, and rigor were all in range for every school in the country.

I was accepted to my first choice, accepted to a reach (and later its honors college - where stats are comparable with HYPS), waitlisted by a match, and rejected/waitlisted by several schools on the same level as my first choice. Most of my essays didn’t read like those of applicants who wore (school)-branded nappies and have been in love with that school ever since. I wasn’t able to visit most colleges, due to cost, which probably cut off some avenues when I wrote essays. Visiting, and knowing the college better than you know your HS, will both help. But above all, it’s a random process. I tailored my first-choice essays for months. My second reach acceptance was the result of some very poor essays written six hours before the application deadline. I spent more time on several peer schools, and didn’t get into any of them.

Does all this randomness annoy me? No. I ended up having several fantastic options, and it’s hard to complain about that.

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The person read my app before lunch for Harvard and Princeton. Thus I was rejected.
The person read my app during lunch for Yale and UPenn. Thus I was waitlisted.
The person read my app after lunch for Columbia. Thus I was accepted.
Lunch is the way and the truth and the life. No one can come to the college except through it.

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I’m the confusing applicant you talk about - accepted YSMC, deferred SCEA Princeton then rejected. Man, I wish I knew why other than vagaries of the process.

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@Nedcone Brilliant

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If you ask 10 different 100-year-old people why they lived so long, you’ll get 10 different reasons for their longevity, probably none of them right. Same with this question.

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Thank you for the serious well thought out response @NotVerySmart

@snarlatron check out this article. There have been studies done. http://healthland.time.com/2011/08/05/even-the-long-lived-smoke-drink-and-dont-exercise/ Maybe we should commission a study on this?!

@Nedcone, very cute but how is it that so many happened to hit the AdCom after lunch 5 times in a row, and another bunch seems to always be there first thing in the morningl? Its just too much for it to be so random.

I am not asking why people get in but rather why they get in to MULTIPLE places. Especially as people who are very qualified and very similar get into none. That is the part that I wonder.

@Anonymoose3 I think it is something with Princeton. You are not the first to have this. I know a kid who did SCEA P, got deferred and then rejected. Accepted another HYP and another ivy after doing her applications on December 31.

She had good stats but was quite ordinary otherwise and it was a couple of years ago. However, she believes she got in to those places because she expressed an interest in something that they were in the process of building up (it is done). The two schools in question were looking for people like her. The reason she talked about it was part of her narrative not to get into the schools, but that was the reason I believe. It distinguished her in some way and was otherwise a suitable candidate. The schools she got rejected at was just another white kid and they were not in the process of building a program for the expressed interest.

Then I know others where P was the only ivy they got.

I am less interested with the rejections than the acceptances.

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@Anonymoose3 And I got rejected from Stanford, MIT and Harvard (all my top choices) and got into Princeton (never thought I would end up there). Wanna trade :wink:

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To offer my humble opinion, I think you’re assuming that if you get into one prestigious school, it must be so that you should also get into another prestigious school.

First, getting into one prestigious university is extremely hard - especially when “excellence” is being achieved by so many people. It’s not difficult to see every year a student getting rejected by all 8 ivy leagues. The odds are simply stacked against the applicants.

Some CCer really made a neat analogy about how getting into one prestigious school is like winning an individual state lottery; just because you win in one state does not increase your chances of getting into another. And this does make sense - all of the schools are looking for a different kind of excellence and this will keep changing with the adcoms who are viewing the applications.

Also, just because some applicants seem “ordinary” in statistics does not make them a less viable applicant. I believe that the personal essays play a huge part - it’s what makes the system at once holistic and quixotic. And this is where trying to equate the process is self-defeating. It is a system that tries its best to see students beyond the numbers and stats and even the prestigious awards and internships. Otherwise, why would they even bother reading every single application? Why not just throw all the applicants into a computer?

TL;DR - To quote Kung Fu Panda, “There is no secret ingredient.” Why? Because we are judging living, breathing human beings, not humanoids designed to get into Ivy Leagues.

Hope this helps

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@notverysmart - I am curious which of the top 20 has an honors college.

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@Nedcone When judges hand down decisions that seem so random as to so be based on what they ate for breakfast, it is called “gastronomic jurisprudence”. Thus you have defined “gastronomic admissions”.

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I’m going to agree that asking the successful applicant to explain it does not yield a good answer. The admissions officers need to explain the standards but they will not because doing so would make clear that the process is NOT “random” and that most kids have zero chance based on non-academic factors such as suburban zip codes and parents with graduate degrees. We parents perpetuate the lie of “randomness” to make ourselves feel better.

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^um, so I disagree a bit with that. Many kids have a small chance because they’re not realistically within the pool for these admissions – either they don’t have the grades or the stats, but everyone is allowed to have “a few reaches” and “you never know” so they apply anyway. The reality is that a certain level of GPA or class rank or SAT score is a floor.

Now, within the pool, there can seem to be a lot of variability and I’m not sure on our end if it can be explained exactly. One kid gets into H and S, but really wanted Y; another gets Y and M but really wanted S. If you’re getting in, then you’re clearly qualified for probably ALL of those schools. However, the decisions appear random to us. Perhaps to the adcoms, those decisions are not so random. They presumably have reasons to make the choices they do, but some of them may have to do with how many kids are in the outstanding theatre kids box vs how many are in the high stat pre-med box. You want a balanced and diverse class (in all its permutations – ethnicity, race, gender, geography, SES, interests, activities) and that leads to one kid making the cut and another not.

I also believe that readers are people with some biases, and sometimes a kid’s humor or essays rub a particular reader the wrong way whereas another reader might get it and make a connection with the applicant. It is somewhat random for that kid to have been assigned to THAT reader.

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@SeekingPam You are under the mistaken impression that linear logic applies to college admissions.

Fact is, there is no consistent logic and it is not a linear process. There’s no codification to crack.

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@nerdking " I think you’re assuming that if you get into one prestigious school, it must be so that you should also get into another prestigious school."

NOT my point at all. The exact opposite of my point. I am NOT interested in the single or double acceptance, that is fit or institutional need or the reader liked your essay or had a particularly great lunch or your parents went to two different HYPS. Very simply I understand why one kid will get into Harvard and Dartmouth or even just one of those. I understand why a Val will not get into any even with a 2330 SAT score and being president of the cat walking club.

WHAT I DON’T understand is how there seem to be a number of people that get into 5 or 6 or 10 (I include Duke, UChicago, MIT, Stanford among others so there are more than 8) top schools. The posts that ask if Yale, Harvard or Princeton or the prestigious award from UPenn are best for the kid. That is what I do not understand. Did they cure the common cold, achieve world peace or win Intel AND Siemens?

@piesquared “they presumably have reasons to make the choices they do, but some of them may have to do with how many kids are in the outstanding theatre kids box vs how many are in the high stat pre-med box.”

Yes Harvard may need a harp player but Standford, Princeton and Columbia do not all need the same one as well! Yes it seems a number of people are getting into all of the them.

As an aside I do think the 4.0/35 not getting in to Top 20s is sometimes about connections and the school they attend. There is a district near me that has done poorly for a number of years. They have similar populations to the adjoining districts but both of those have done significantly better than this district. No one knows why and it is not the kids, some are amazing and have done amazingly in their colleges.

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Well, those districts have different counselors.

In any case, schools admit people and not just to balance a class. There are some kids who are just amazing. Adults talk to them in HS and think they will go on to do great things. And they win poetry awards and are top ten in the country in something and are accomplished musicians and write essays that people who have reviewed essays of many who have gotten in to Ivies for many cycles think is the best ever.
They are kids that HYPS fight over.
There are maybe 200 of them each year.

It’s not a completely random process.

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Well, I got into HSM, I was rejected from Duke. I don’t know why I got in, nor do I know why I was rejected. I’m not a national ranked athlete, nor am I a writer, millionare who donated; I’ve never won a major award, my sat’s were average at best and I never won a medal at an international olympiad, etc.
I never got a grade below an A, I did lots of sports, I was involved with my school in multiple things, I got a decent ACT score, my sat2 scores were perfect except for one 750, I had good recs and essays, so I guess that’s why I got in.

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@potterfan thank you for the response and congratulations. One question, does your school regularly send a few kids each year to HYPS or is only one or two or none?

@PurpleTitan For the ones that have not won national awards but “are kids that HYPS fight over.
There are maybe 200 of them each year.” How do the HYPS know about them?

Yes there has been talk of changing Guidance Counselors in that district, since I do not live there no idea what happened. I would think since the talk was last year the Guidance department would be motivated to do what they can as much as possible.

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@SeekingPam IT usually sends one kid to either HYPSM each year. ONE kid to either school, so it’s not a feeder school.