Where do you think those sons and daughters go to college when they don’t get into a tippy top? Do you think they won’t network unless it’s a top ten or twenty? Or do you think Yale kids are nearly all kids with powerful connections and it’ll be like shooting fish in a barrel? Networking works best when the doer does it right.
@lookingforward My point is that as a whole, students at top schools are more ambitious and well-connected than those at your typical college campus. You can network anywhere, as important people can be found all across the globe. But it’s a bit naive to assume that a graduate from an average state school will be on the same level as an HYP grad, all else being equal. “Name brand” educations are the icing on the cake; while obviously not essential, they will open a lot of additional doors.
So do well at your college and go to a fabulous grad school.
@lookingforward That’s the plan, but if you can swing it for undergrad all the better.
You got to be a gunner. Need that finesse.
IMO, my biggest seller had to be my essays, my interview, and my recommendations. I had very average, or below average, stats for my top 20 (Duke) and yet I was admitted to engineering. This comes to me as no surprise(what I think my strengths are, the acceptance was a huge surprise), I considered the aforementioned qualities to be strongest in my application anyways, I guess they just shined especially brightly to whoever was reading my app that day.
I just saw this thread, and I thought it relevant to say this: generally, if you have great numbers (GPA, SAT, Subject Tests), you stand a very good chance at all the top schools like Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern, etc. However, in order to get into the super elite schools like ivies, MIT, Stanford, Williams, etc., you need a “hook.” This could take many forms, such as URM, woman in engineering, amazing athlete, special talents, or something unique that will fill a niche at the school. Some of the most successful people in this process I’ve known were mime artists, dancers, or visual artists. The top schools (Harvard, Columbia, Yale, MIT) admitted them even though they didn’t have the typical “amazing” stats (I’m talking SATs below 2100). I had “amazing” stats and got into top schools (Duke, Rice, WashU), but didn’t get into any of those super elites. I think this is because I had great numbers, but nothing that really stood out as unique.
All of the top schools are looking for a hook. If you don’t have one, your chances are low. There’s a whole lot of admissions overlap in the top 25 schools, and they all tend to be looking for similar clusters of kids. I’d be surprised if Duke admissions would agree that it’s less selective than any of the LAC’s like Williams or Amherst, and that they’re as interested in a hook (+numbers) as any school.
I got into Stanford, MIT, Princeton and Columbia, a friend of mine got into Harvard and Stanford (only two schools he applied to) and another got into Harvard, Princeton and MIT (only three schools she applied to).
I think what really helped all of us was major awards - national/international level awards which are very well-known and prestigious.
@sansculottes - You don’t need to get into any details about your and your friends’ “national/international level awards,” but would you mind telling us what categories these awards were in, scientific, music, tech, etc.?
Sure!
I was the first reserve of my national debate team and had won a few and made the finals of quite a few more national-level tournaments. I also was the joint top scorer in the national girls’ math Olympiad and had done pretty well in other math Olympiads (invited to the national training camp).
One of my friends is on the national debating team and last year was a top 10 speaker at the World Schools’ Championships. He also had quite a few national victories too.
The other friend was on the national girls’ math Olympiad team and got a bronze medal at the European Championships. She also made the category final of the national Young Musician of the Year competition, and had a number of other music awards as well. I think she also had some pretty advanced research as well.
By the way, I was waitlisted by Harvard and Yale and rejected by Penn. My other two friends did not get any waitlists/rejections, and they both had international + more impressive national awards.
@sansculottes - Thanks for your detailed response. You did very well with your accomplishments and best wishes on your college career!
If one is placed at ISEF, not top of the top, but let’s say 3rd in a category… How is that viewed by top schools? This student also has perfect GPA, 34 ACT, and good but not unique EC’s (leadership and volunteering). No other hooks.
There are something like 23 categories in ISEF which means this would be somewhere between 45-70 in ranking?
I think those who win a category fare reasonably well based on what I have seen with at least one category winner last year.
“rather why they get in to MULTIPLE places.”
T2684 answered it in post # 1.
Go back and let his short , on point answer sink in.
the adjective “excellence”, when used by an adult to describe a HS student- regardless of whether it is because of the way he writes, or what he did or accomplished, or what he was like as a HS student- is a word that grabs the attention of college admissions officers. “Excellent” students are the kind of students that top colleges REALLY want. They also want NICE, eager to learn students who are a pleasure to teach.
So if a student has incredibly glowing recommendation letters, and has written a"knock your socks off "essays , AND has the kind of scores, grades and outside EC’s that put in the “good enough” pile, he may very well get the nod at many top colleges.
I do think most people know why they got in which was the opposite of T2684’s point. When I look at my kid’s acceptances I know for each school why, interestingly it is not the same reason for each school and none are HYPSM. Legacy and above 50th/Legacy and above 75th/Above 90th, no interest no hooks/Interest and Interesting and unique reason on Why X and above 50th/Above 75th and school has good relationship with college. For one of my cousin’s kids who is at a HYP, it was legacy AND interesting under served area of interest that school was trying to develop. However he just got into the one HYPS.
It helps to craft an application that fits the particular school. That takes time. It is probably not “the” reason, but it is a strong one.