And the Stanford school paper says expelled http://www.stanforddaily.com/2016/05/26/a-case-against-brock-turners-incarceration/
Just noticed it is an op-ed piece. Don’t know if the author for sure knows if he was expelled or withdrew…
GnocchiB: Like PG, I want to thank you for posting the probation report we’ve all been wondering about waaay back in #1015.
GnoochiB read it, I read it, PG read it. I’m sure dstark read it. Who else? Are we going to talk about it?
Was she not found unconscious while Turner was performing a sexual act on her by 2 eye witnesses @momofthreeboys ? Doesn’t ones ability to consent stop when they’re no longer conscious?
*Recommendation
- imposition of sentence to be suspended. Formal Probation be granted for three years.* pg. 14
I don’t understand - is the recommendation no actual time be served? Later it recommends county jail.
Yes, I saw those other reports that say he was expelled but I felt the Mercury News article written at the time was probably accurate. Stanford is coming under criticism for not doing enough to prevent sexual assault and they are definitely making an attempt to appear to have dealt with Turner quickly and harshly. I think they had no idea if the victim was going to drop her case and then the course of events might have changed. My hunch is that the voluntary withdrawl left Turner with more options in the future than an outright expulsion. I know this is what was negotiated with a student in a disciplinary procedding with another school. Just a guess. Will see what I can find on Stanford Daily’s archives.
“. My problem with Turner and his family and friends is that none of them seem to realize the impact that 20 minutes of action has on the victim. Their sole concern seems to be minimizing the impact on Turner.”
But you are concluding that based on documents whose PURPOSE was to argue for leniency. The purpose of these documents was not to describe the impact that the rape had on the survivor. The probation report does say that he showed significant remorse in interviewing. You just cannot conclude his level of remorse or not from reading a document whose purpose was not to express remorse.
Maybe it was heart rending and sincerely felt and he wishes a million times to make amends to the survivor. Maybe it was superficial and he’s just spouting words. The point is, unless you were in the courtroom and privy to all interviewing that took place, or unless you were a psychologist treating him, you and I simply cannot know.
There are likely hundreds of pages of documents and we are looking at a handful. This is like pretending you know what goes on in someone else’s marriage because you hung out with Bob and he always seemed like a nice guy. You don’t know what goes on behind closed doors in someone else’s marriage, and you don’t know the totality of BT’s and his family’s remorse (or lack thereof).
re: 1062 Not quite that clean of a case. He was away from her. The two that caught him tripped him and said he was running away. He says he got up because he needed to vomit and he was not aware she passed out and when the two bystanders yelled at him and were speaking in a foreign language he was afraid. Take it for what it’s worth, but I believe that is what the official report says. It doesn’t really matter because of the issue of consent…at 3x the legal limit she probably was so drunk there probably couldn’t be consent in a legal sense. He’s guilty of sexual assault, maybe not technically rape under California law and they dropped those charges, I can’t imagine anyone thinking he is not.
Expulsion vs. withdrawal wouldn’t make much difference in these circumstances. Felonies trump expulsions.
Brick-and-mortar four-year campuses could hypothetically choose to admit a registered sex offender if they wanted to. There’s no national law against it. I just haven’t ever heard of it happening, and I wouldn’t be optimistic. Even if a school is open enrollment by policy, they can make individual decisions. And people on supervision can’t necessarily move to another state if they find a school with more lenient policies.
Interestingly, there’s a federal law requiring sex offenders who work or take classes on campus to register with campus safety. This is a public record, but not online. So if you want to know if there are any sex offenders at your local campus, you can go to their campus police office and ask.
PG: At this point, we know Brock Turner lies, at least on occasion. He lied during this case. That makes it very difficult for me to find anything at all he says credible.
…
I am making a real effort in this thread to not get distracted and to keep calling it like it really is. It was rape.
Unfortunately, the statistics aren’t broken down by college/region/area and thus, no allowance for variation depending on heavy drinking culture of the particular colleges, regions, areas, etc.
As a result, one reading that link could easily be mislead into believing the levels of heavy drinking and associated problems are the same in general.
From that, it’s probably no surprise why some parents even here on CC believe “every college is a party school” and heavy drinking/partying is on every campus when my own experience/observations and those of most I know is that such a statement doesn’t account for such wide variations or exceptions such as my LAC during the period I attended*.
- And it's unlikely they kept the alcohol hidden considering the fact students openly used weed** and psychedelics.
** The smell alone was such that no one who knew what weed smelled like would have missed it unless their nose was completely dead.
None of us know when she passed out or went “unconscious” – you’re all speculating. When college students are black out drunk they can be making out w each other and be passed out a moment later.
What I know is that I have a friend who was a defense attorney for a few years who said those letters were not a good idea.
What I do know is that I know someone who went to prison because he and some friends broke into a house (no one was home at the time) and stole some jewelry. His sentence was more than this rapists sentence. He spent over a year in prison for a nonviolent crime. He was married and had a 3 year old child at the time. His family showed more class and grace than this one did.
^^he either had some other charges on his record or a really bad attorney…just my opinion.
@Hanna ,
Incarcerated felons get online degrees, so would assume he could do likewise.
This is the article in the Stanford Daily at the time of Turner’s arrest:http://www.stanforddaily.com/2015/01/27/freshman-male-athlete-arrested-for-attempted-rape-on-jan-18/
He wouldn’t have been able to afford an attorney like Turner could. His would have been court appointed.
Note that the one report says that his first night at Stanford, the soph swim team threw a welcome party for the freshmen at which there was alcohol. I bet Stanford’s legal team is poring over these and cringing at that sentence.
So … What colleges do a good job at keeping drinking down to a dull roar? Why? How? Let’s try to learn what works. I don’t pretend to know.
The article linked above quotes Stanford administrator Lapin as saying that Turner withdrew.
They probably could not address expulsion until the case was adjudicated or taken through the honor court or the expulsion process, and if I were Turner, I’d not want to set foot on campus after the charges were levied and the incident made public. So its probably a moot point whether he withdrew, took a mutual expulsion, or some combination thereof, since it says he cannot apply for readmission or set foot on campus (per the reported agreement between Turner and Stanford).
As a side note, the editor in chief of the paper (who just graduated) looks soooooooo young!
I apologize. I am deleting that post because I want to keep myself focused on campus rape on this thread.