<p>So far, so good! Good job, all around!</p>
<p>I think Seahorsesrock is trying to calm the OP down regarding the OP reacting to the posts. It’s just another point of view, and a valid one. Every “kid” is different, but generally, I think the point is that we shouldn’t fear our kids’ reactions if we are taking a stand on honesty, communication, respect for the home, or other issues that are part of teaching our (sometimes already “adult”) children. It’s impossible to get the tone in electronic communication, so that may be part of the problem. Sure, you can ignore posters, starting with me if you wish. I just know that firm and very tough love saved one of my kids, and we are closer now that said child is a fully functioning, independent and grateful adult. And yes, our kiddo would have been classified by anyone one as “otherwise normal,” but was found to have problems very far beyond anything the OP has described. We did take the risk that our actions could backfire. In whatever form it takes, no doubt the OP’s D will eventually appreciate Shaken’s careful attempt to do the right thing for her D, and the restrictions that Shaken seems to be imposing now. Let’s hope a light touch will do the trick. If it doesn’t, I hope that Shaken continues to seek out qualified advisers, and adjust her actions accordingly as needed. I imagine that is exactly what will happen. I didn’t think Seahorses was trying to tell the OP to use a sledgehammer and be an insensitive jerk, but I’ll bet that if I told you exactly what our situation was and the actions that we took, many of you would call me exactly that. And you would be very very wrong. Good luck, Shaken. The most important aspect of this challenge is the fact that both your H and you must be on the same page. Without that, progress is impossible.</p>
<p>So glad to hear it’s going forward, shakenparent. It sounds like you are doing the best anyone possibly could and I am hoping for all the best for you and your D.</p>
<p>Sopranomom, take a look at this quote:</p>
<p>"We seem to be a generation of parents who bend over backwards. Dont upset the kids, heaven forbid, they might get cranky. We act as if shutting down is better then acting out and pushing back. Its the same thing. If your husband just shut down, would you go, poor baby? "</p>
<p>This is a quote from said person and it is what I was referring to. Every parent has to make decisions and yes, they have to be parents when it comes to tough things. I mentioned that tough love may be needed, and I sure am not advocating that parents stop acting like parents, but there are also times when the cure is worse then the disease IME. I have seen parents of kids into drugs and such who basically ignored it to ‘not upset things’, also have seen parents whose answer was to act like martinets, scream at the kid, demonize them, and it caused the kid to go deeper off the rails, it all depends on the circumstance. Sounds to me like shaken knows her D fairly well and acted in a responsible way, she talked to her daughter and worked with the therapist. When I hear crap like the quote above in response to what a responsible parent is trying to do my blood boils, it is a hackneyed cliche thrown around a little too much.</p>
<p>Ok, re your quote: to me, it sounds like Seahorses is suggesting that OP treat her daughter like the adult that she is (same as the husband). In other words, if your husband shut down instead of communicating, you probably wouldn’t focus on feeling sorry for him, you’d call him on his lack of communication. You wouldn’t wait until he’s “acting out and cranky”. So treat your adult daughter the same way. I’m thinking that this teaches the D that when you live with people, you have a responsibility to be pleasant, honest, responsible and respectful. D is learning that her behavior (shutting down, selling her meds, whatever) does affect those she lives with and those who love her. </p>
<p>Finding and reading the journal was a blessing, and I agree with others that it was left out in the hopes of being discovered (subconsciously or otherwise). Great idea to approach the subject in a therapy session rather than at home without an impartial party. Apologizing for reading the journal (especially since it was written inside schoolwork notes) wasn’t really necessary, but the way it was handled seemed fine. One thing the D can learn from that is that if she wants total privacy, with no one possibly reading her journal, then her goal can be study, finish school, get a job, accept responsibilities of adulthood, get her own place and be financially independent. She will learn that with patience and determination, she will achieve her goal. If the fact that mom read her journal annoys D enough, that gives D that much more incentive to keep her eye on her goal of privacy and independence. </p>
<p>I didn’t see anyone advocating “act like martinets, scream at the kid, demonize them” but perhaps I missed it. Tough love has nothing to do with screaming or demonizing. </p>
<p>Quote: "When I hear crap like the quote above in response to what a responsible parent is trying to do my blood boils, it is a hackneyed cliche thrown around a little too much. " I would agree that this cliche is common. I would also say that the parental behavior referred to in the quote is far too common. We are probably all guilty of it at times. Especially those of us who prefer to avoid conflict.</p>
<p>Again, I am hoping that Shaken’s D will do fine with a relatively light touch. There is a fine line between enabling bad behavior and gently guiding. The line is different with every person, and can change over time. Hang in there, Shakenparent.</p>
<p>I do see seahorses view and I do agree with him/her about how a lot of parents bend over backwards in not upsetting their kids. That being said, OP knows her D and could predict the outcome better than anyone if the situation wasn’t handle properly. I think OP is handling the situation remarkably well.</p>
<p>I also accidentally read D1’s email when she was 15 about how they were drinking at her best friend’s house when they were having sleepovers. She wasn’t allowed to go over to her friend’s house for a while, no sleepovers, and I regularly searched her room for a while to make sure she wasn’t doing anything else. I wish I could have trusted her, but her safety was more important. </p>
<p>Last night D2 was going to her best friend’s house for a sleepover to celebrate her friend turning 18. Where we live, 18 is a legal drinking age and it is often celebrated with going bar hopping. I have told D2 that she wasn’t allowed to go to bars without us due to security reason. I asked her if that was part of the plan for last night. D2 told me that it wasn’t, just dinner and movies then sleepover. I told D2 to call me at midnight from her friend’s land line so I would know she wasn’t out in the city. She agreed to it, but sure enough, around 10pm she called me to let me know that she didn’t feel well enough (stomach problem) and wanted to be picked up to come home. I would never know if she had plan on going out drinking with her friends, and I don’t really care if she was offended.</p>
<p>I also know a mother who went through her high school D’s backpack because she thought her D was not acting normal. She had tried to talk to her D, but her D said everything was fine. In her D’s bag she found nasty notes from other kids making fun of her. Her D was being bullied in school and was afraid to say anything, and was contemplating suicide. This mother pulled her D out of the school.</p>
<p>I wish I could trust my kids from day one, but it was a learning process for my kids to become honest people with integrity over time, and sometimes that trust needs to be validated.</p>
<p>^^^Trust but verify.</p>
<p>ShakenParent: it sounds as though you’re doing a fantastic job in this situation and managing to not over-react, but be there as a resource to your daughter. You’re there to help her navigate through the difficulties she’s experiencing to enable her to develop into an adult and hopefully learn some useful ways to deal with the struggles associated with her current unhappiness. I’m reading a lot about tough love approaches on this thread and would encourage you to remember there are many different ways to approach any situation. I’m rarely a fan of unmodified “tough love” because I think it fails to take into account individual differences, and the uniqueness of each situation. As a famous therapist once said “if the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to treat everything as if it
were a nail”. In my experience there are no easy answers or sure fire solutions and I offer my support (anonymous and long distance!) as you feel your way through these issues and work towards the best interests of your daughter.</p>
<p>OP, I have read the entire thread and while I am not qualified to add anything I would just like to send my best wishes to you and your family. Your D is fortunate to have such a caring family.</p>
<p>"We seem to be a generation of parents who bend over backwards. Dont upset the kids, heaven forbid, they might get cranky. We act as if shutting down is better then acting out and pushing back. Its the same thing. If your husband just shut down, would you go, poor baby? "</p>
<p>I don’t really disagree with this in the abstract, but I also don’t think it applies in any way to ShakenParent.</p>
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<p>I would agree to an extent, but it’s true that it doesn’t necessarily apply here. Not now, in any event. Right before she hit a wall in the fall, I think we were definitely taking more this tack than not. It only pushed her further away from us. And she was a lot more confrontational then as well. I think teenagers are also very different from one’s spouse. One should ASSUME the frontal cortex of a nearly 50 year old guy is developed and he is capable of considered thought. Afterall, he willingly entered into a marriage. A teenager, on the other hand, doesn’t think rationally all the time. Their life experience is very self-absorbed in a general kind of way. They take risks, can’t communicate their motives (if they even know them), and on and on. I just think when someone compares a spouse to their child, or that a spouse is equivalent to a child on any level, there might be some control issues at play in general. </p>
<p>I appreciate the support in general on this thread. But I’m not sure I am really handling things all that well. Sure, on the outside, I am being very deliberate in every interaction with D. But I honestly DO feel like freaking out half the time. I feel like I am peaking around every corner… and because I hadn’t noticed some of this stuff before, I obviously am feeling very distrustful of everything she does! This can’t be helpful either because what is new news to me is somewhat old news to others, some of which she is successfully dealing with and others… well, not so much. I have to remember that SOME things were written nearly a month ago. She had reached out for help and has been very honest with SOME of those things. Other things are now in the open and MAYBE we’ll see equal progress. I have to have patience, I get that. Patience without stupidity is right up there with trust but verify. But it sure as heck isn’t easy especially because no one has a legal responsibility to keep you informed! And despite being the one who was the FIRST to know for the last 19 years, this “adult” of mine has only been one for about five minutes (i.e., 3 months). I am trying to respect the learning curve of letting go in a responsible way.</p>
<p>And it’s not like I wouldn’t LIKE to blast a bazooka at the issues at hand, trust me. I just know that this is not the way to go, not yet anyway. A parent better be very prepared to follow thru. You don’t tell a toddler “No” and then relent due to a temper tantrum. And you don’t say “No” to an adolescent when you really mean “maybe, I’ll say Yes, but only if you can convince me.” And all I am really saying is that yes, sometimes tough love - really tough love - is absolutely the right course of action. We are not there yet. Because when it comes to tough love and true detachment, you had absolutely better be prepared to follow through or else you risk truly crippling the other person, as well as yourself. I just think we’d be skipping about five steps of resolution if we went there too early.</p>