<p>I would just add that IMHO when a person records things in a journal and then leaves that journal out in a place they know a certain person is likely to see it, they are on some level wanting it to be seen. </p>
<p>When I was a teen I did some “journalling” that I very much did NOT want my mother to see, and I can assure you that I did NOT leave it out in my room! I know people who have freely admitted that they left journals out when they wanted their roommate to read some less than pleasant commentary about said roommate. It is a way of sidling towards broaching a difficult subject. :)</p>
<p>Just one thing! (more, I promise to stop)
… I don’t know what you read in the journal but I’ll guess it wasn’t a glowing report on how fantastic her parents (and probably especially mom) are doing. Give it a few years. You may have read some really unflattering reports of yourself that are hard to dismiss. Do your best to dismiss them. As personal as it may be, don’t take it personally. If there is a comment you take to heart, take it as a growth experience, you’ll be a better person. Everyone needs to move forward.
And give her and you the benefit of a big doubt!</p>
<p>I am sorry I offended, but I was sharing i read. And I am sorry, again why is it the mom who has to worry so much about regaining her daughters trust when according tonthe journal e girl is lying about all kinds of things. Doesnt the girl owe her mom a huge appology and shouldn’t she be the one who needs to regain everyones trust? Maybe when i read people are so afraid to talk to their children for fear of a temper tantrum and the silent treatment. This is a manipulation of the relationships. Oh, if you confront me on my lies, selling of drugs etc, I’m going to shutdown. Im going to fight back by playing the trust game. Thins bet has been going on in this house for years. And it worked. I am glad to hear it’s getting better but mom shouldn’t have ton tiptoe around the issues like this. The girl is 18but still in hs, and awkward combination. But that doesn’t mean she can be bratty. My daughter was a great kid, but she tried to pull snooty bratty behavior, and i just wouldn’t put up with it. People use anger, tantrums, silence, as power. Makes people to say anything. And teens have mastered the tactic. It’s like two year olds with tantrums. i am just saying sometimes we forget we are thebparents, it’s our house and we shouldn’t live in fear of our kids behavior moods and manipulations.</p>
<p>OP, very glad to hear you have a good plan – the therapist sounds excellent and it’s great that your D’s grades have not suffered horribly. Teenagers exaggerate-- maybe especially in their own journals where they can make themselves sound way more ‘mad, bad, and dangerous to know’ than they are at all. I hope this turns around quickly and happily-- your daughter is lucky you are so thoughtful and caring…and I’m guessing she has those qualities deep in her too. That’s two sides of a pretty good bridge-- I hope the therapist can help get them to meet in the middle.</p>
<p>When my D was 13 and away at summer camp, I was mucking out her room. She had MANY notebooks (college lined spiral, mostly partly leftover from school from the past few years). I was going through them just to decide which ones were too full to keep (old assignments, etc), and which ones had enough blank pages to warrant keeping for future use. I came across what was essentially a diary entry… written in blood (NOT kidding). I read it, and it revealed what is her deepest secret. I was completely floored, as I had not suspected what was written there at all. But no way was I going to just shut the notebook once I realized what the “ink” was.</p>
<p>I did the following:
Called her pediatrician and discussed it with her. Pediatrician suggested I consider a visit to a psychologist for D given the blood portion of the scenario. After consideration, I ruled that out. D is introverted on her best day, and I knew there was zero chance she would talk to any stranger.
Gave her a couple of days after she got home from camp, then went to her room to talk to her. Told her she had to hear me out, then could comment or be as angry with me as she wanted to be. I explained how I had found it. Told her that her secret in no way changed my opinion or love for her. Instructed her in no uncertain terms that blood was not to be used as ink EVER again. Let her know I was going to tell her dad (my ex-H) about this, as he had a right to know what she had written about as her joint legal guardian. And also that if she wished to discuss it, I was here and supportive.</p>
<p>She was FURIOUS. I have never seen her so angry. She took the notebook outside and burned it in the fire pit. She barely spoke to me for a couple of days. It took a week or so for her to really warm up again. But I sort of think she was a little relieved, too. She had been carrying a secret burden really bottled up inside her, and now she had an outlet if she needed it. Three years later, I think both of us are actually glad that experience happened. I am not sure if this approach would work (or is even appropriate) with the OP’s D. But a matter of fact approach that assured her that I loved her (which fortunately I think she never doubted, our bond was strong before this happened), but that I would NOT stand for her to jeopardize her health worked for us. I did not minimize what she had written, but kept the focus on her safety.</p>
<p>I’ve just returned from meeting D’s therapist. I truly like her, and more importantly, I think she is really an excellent fit for D. She said she is very impressed with our D, specifically adding that she’s not easily impressed with anyone! She realizes that D has been keeping things from her, but she also sees her really trying to get things out but obviously feels its important not to force the really difficult so as to maintain and build the overall relationship. She also says the window is definitely closing in terms of family therapies with D being 18 (which is certainly not “old” for a HS senior with a November birthday as someone intimated), and that it’s a tricky line to walk with parents of an “adult.” D knew we were meeting today, she knew that her T was going to tell us about her attending a group therapy regarding her smoking pot. T thinks that if D has sold her rx, it isn’t her habit because her habit is more that she herself overtakes it (which I guess D had given her permission to say?) So, while the abuse is definitely concerning (and being addressed in a myriad of ways), committing felonies has not become her business. I don’t feel better necessarily, but I am doing what I can and sometimes that’s all a parent can really do.</p>
<p>We are hopeful that D will allow us to come for a joint meeting tomorrow. Her T will be calling her to get her OK and emailing me back. She also gave me a name of a family therapist to call… but she doesn’t accept insurance and is pricey. Honestly, I would love to say the money doesn’t matter, but then I wouldn’t even be close to being honest. Plus, my H isn’t exactly a fan of therapy or therapists in a general kind of way. Like, it’s fine for other people but not for him. And even though this technically isn’t about him, he does seem to view a lot of issues with our D in terms of how it reflects on him or shines a light into him (since they have always been rather similar in a lot of ways).</p>
<p>Again, I hope D will agree, because we didn’t really discuss a plan B (although I suppose the T will offer one if D rejects it). The idea is to apologize for inadvertently finding the journal, and give her permission to be angry about that. However, the idea is also to ask about the most concerning of issues at hand and since the T knows the majority of the rest, leave this mtg to have a small focus. According to T, D knows we don’t trust her AND agrees that we probably shouldn’t.</p>
<p>D knew we were finding out about her attending this rehab group because D had to give her therapist permission to share it (and everything else she did). At the end of the day, I believe the therapist walked the fine line very well, seems to genuinely like our D and has seen good progress and a willingness from our D to put forth as well as she can, which seems to be getting better and more open as time goes on. T reiterated that she is not feeling BS’d as much as D is holding back and sees a very big difference in the two (and I’d have to agree).</p>
<p>Intparent - I think you were very lucky to have found something like that at 13 vs 17. I wish my D had not kept so much locked up for so many years because had she been writing then, who knows what we could have avoided all together or even to a lesser degree than where we are currently.</p>
<p>I do not believe any child would owe anyone a huge apology for finding herself depressed and unable to deal with all that goes with that - anger, anxiety, etc…and journaling about that. I don’t understand that. I’d like to ask how many children Seahorses has and their ages. I have three children and they are each so individual in their needs, that it’s not that I doubt the expertise of parents of only children, it’s that I don’t think they can easily see all the various shades of gray that happens in child-rearing (either that or they themselves are so controlling that their kids are slow to grasp where their parent ends and they begin). </p>
<p>Yes, I am concerned that D will shut down and build an even tougher shell refusing to let anyone inside, including the therapist. I sure as hell didn’t/don’t share everything with MY mother, this I can guarantee. I never found her a particularly soft place to land at any point in my life, and that has been very disappointing. Few people like to be judged and/or controlled all the time. Talk about manipulation of a relationship? </p>
<p>Teenagers are SUPPOSED to create power struggles with their parents. It’s the way they gain autonomy. It’s pretty age appropriate in a general sense. However, it is the parental role to try to instill in their kids a sense of right and wrong so when those lines are crossed, they don’t lead to a head on collusion in traffic. And frankly, I’d worry equally about kids never pushing the limits. Where’s the creativity and originality? I want my children to feel free to lead an authentic life. This requires honesty with oneself… about the highs and lows of life. It is important to keep our eye on the ball right now.</p>
<p>And while some things have been going on for years, mostly that applies to her fierce independence and very private nature. Something happened - whether it was sudden or over time - that knocked her off her usually resilient personality and all the rest is relatively new in the past 18 months or so, coming to a head probably a year in.</p>
<p>OP - I think that is very typical of men…to this day my ex can’t see my child’s pain except in terms of how any acting out makes him feel. Sounds like you are on the right path, it can be a long road but one step at a time.</p>
<p>I think I must be more of a French mom than most. And while I understand your daughters struggles, and I may not be right, but so many teenage girls will shut down tom avoid having to deal with their own lies and it’s a manipulation. Call me mean and insensitive, be as parents we tend to fear our adult kids or teens, and they have all the control.</p>
<p>As someone who saw a therapist in hs, only four visits, it was all i needed, I understand how valuable it can be, but that didn’t allow me to be a brat at home.</p>
<p>^^ Are you actually French and having a difficult time with the language? In addition to my never saying she was a cheat, I also never said she was acting a brat at home. Quite the opposite in fact. My concerns were that what I read in the found journal was NOT the kid I saw and thought I knew that had/has me concerned. It was the duplicity that had me shaken. Well that, and the fact that INITIALLY her therapist was going to tell her I called and had found/read it (which ended up not being the case). </p>
<p>Not only do you seem to read between the lines, you actually fill in facts with assumptions of your own! So for the very last time, I’m trying to deliver help to my daughter, who clearly needs it, and not alienate her further or push her away so she leaves completely at the same time. She is quiet… too quiet. On the surface, she is anything but a brat or a mouthy teenager. And what I read in the journal is not some deliberate master manipulater, but a scared girl who doesn’t understand why she is doing what she is doing and doesn’t want to be that way. Can you not see how this might break a parent’s heart to know their kid is in this much pain and be unable to do anything to help them? Or are you to busy blaming the kid or the parent on what has been done wrong and not the reasons behind it? Why would a kid who had so much opportunity be chucking it away when there wasn’t much of a pay off, if any? This isn’t just push back… if it was, she’d be much more in our face about it. And she is just the opposite.</p>
<p>I thought that post 69 was unnecessarily harsh, as well. There is something of a compassion deficit on CC on certain issues. Many people psychologically distance themselves from hardships and tragedies by criticism and blame. </p>
<p>ShakenParent, you are doing all you can here, and I wish you well. (Nice riposte in the first sentence of post 70, too.)</p>
<p>Maybe I seem harsh, but kids can be manipulating by being silent and quiet. Think my point is lost. brats don’t have to be mouthy. </p>
<p>Sorry dear, i read your journal and discovered you have been lying to us a lot and selling your meds, self medicating, and kinda blowing off you work. don’t be mad at me. I am going to tippy toe arund because you are going to shut us out if we talk about your behavior. Please forgive me for learning the truth.</p>
<p>We seem to be a generation of parents who bend over backwards. Dont upset the kids, heaven forbid, they might get cranky. We act as if shutting down is better then acting out and pushing back. Its the same thing. If your husband just shut down, would you go, poor baby?</p>
<p>Long term, in-patient treatment for young people makes a world of difference, but outpatient treatment for this age group has been shown to be potentially dangerous. I cant find the article Im thinking of, but it is by a national expert on the subject. I’ve personally seen kids arrive high to these outpatient groups, or get high afterwards, and get away with it. Repeatedly. You take a kid who is a pot smoker and introduce her to a peer group of other kids who can teach her about all sorts of self-destructive new behaviors. Few young people in treatment stopped at pot. This can happen in-patient as well (you don’t send a kid there unless they really need it), but there are months and months of time to really get a process working with each client (and usually an ability to ensure that everyone is drug-free for the duration). In-patient treatment is the only way to have a reasonable chance of keeping a safe environment for these kids in which to heal. I have seen many therapists not get this, and in general I think many of them are seriously weak in general when it comes to early onset addiction. </p>
<p>From what you described, BTW, it doesn’t sound like your daughter has a five-star problem with addiction, but it is her exposure to an outpatient peer group (in that particular environment) which really concerns me. Many people are born with the propensity for addiction, but even so-called “norms” can develop a serious form of the disease (particularly when using things like pain meds). Kids who are just going through normal acting out behavior, or who have minor emotional things going on, can really take a turn for the worst if introduced to the wrong kids in an unsafe, uncontrollable environment.</p>
Oh dear, please don’t ever report that to anyone but a therapist. Your only duty is to help your young adult child to get healthy. She is not an immediate danger to herself or others, so ethically no action is required of you.</p>
<p>Jym626
</p>
<p>You also need to know that should this drug be sold out of your car or home, you could lose property as well. Additionally, if Adderall is being sold, what would happen if your daughter found leftover pain meds in your medicine cabinet? My suggestion is that you get rid of any unused medication in your home, and lock up what is left. Everyone should do this.</p>
<p>I think that a review of your whole car situation is in order, as an intoxicated driver of a car in your name could cause you to lose your shirt. I didn’t read anything about drinking and driving, but still if I discovered what you did I would no longer allow her to drive my car. You could put a beater in her name.</p>
<p>I also suggest that, while your daughter is living in your home, you give her the Adderall pill each day that she takes it (and have her take it in front of you). Keep the bottle locked up in that cabinet. I know this is controversial because she is 18, but my two cents is that it is still a smart thing to do (and a natural consequence for selling her meds). You are paying for them and for everything else, so I think it’s OK to do something which might be a little awkward when it comes to a controlled substance in your home which has been previously sold.</p>
<p>For me, I would have to explain to my young adult child that she could no longer live in the home if she planned on continuing to sell drugs (even sometimes). </p>
<p>Starbright
</p>
<p>Well, the THC content in pot today compared to the 60’s and 70’s is like the size of a football compared to a house. This is not your mother’s maryjane. Amotivational syndrome and addiction are really happening to a lot of pot smokers today. A generation ago it was unheard of for someone to go to treatment for pot alone, but today it is commonplace. Additionally, the laws have changed DRASTICALLY. Prison time is a real possibility for using or selling drugs, and it does happen to relatively “good” kids who are just experimenting. OP, I don’t think you were AT ALL “so freaked out” by what you read. You sound like you are being pretty reasonable about all of this.</p>
<p>I think my thoughts on parenting a young adult like yours fall somewhere in between starbright and seahorserock. OP, I love your determination to respect your kid, and what I feel the best about is the fact that you clearly love her very, very much in a demonstrative sort of way that is neither permissive nor sarcastic and harsh. Struggling kids who are really bathed in love have a very high chance of success. Hey sometimes kids from loving households slip through the cracks, but for the most part love can and does work magic. </p>
<p>Something has changed in your home, however, and there have to be natural consequences. An 18 year old who is financially dependent has boundaries, and even more so if she resides in the home. I bet that your daughter loves and trusts YOU enough to be able to move on from the discovery that you stumbled upon her private thoughts and read some of them. While she might be the type to close off, I don’t think she will do that to you in this situation for long. Remember that detachment is a part of the process she is naturally in anyway, so you have to figure that in and be patient for a new era to emerge a few years from now. </p>
<p>You can convince her that you are first and foremost a mother, and moms have an instinct to love and protect their kids that has to be experienced to be believed. She knows you to be someone who respects privacy, so she will eventually understand that you were momentarily overtaken by what God put you on this planet to do: protect her. She will probably forgive you immediately, but maybe she won’t show you right away. You can trust that the eighteen years of love and concern you have poured into this kid will serve you both well now. Have a respectful, no-drama talk with her and bring things into the open. Tell her you still believe in her, and cover all the different possible consequences to her and you if she keeps making similar choices. </p>
<p>Experiencing consequences helps to raise the bottom of a young adult who is making some poor choices (especially if it is done in a firm but loving, concerned way). Seeing Mom set boundaries and take car of herself (and protect her home, car, and estate) is good for a young adult daughter. I know your daughter is your world, but you really do have the right and the obligation to take care of yourself as well. You’re worth it.</p>
<p>One more thing…once someone has gone to treatment, especially a young person, it is best for the home to remain alcohol-free, 100% of the time. These kids need a safe place, as sobriety for that age group is hard enough. If pot became a problem, then alcohol is forever off the table.</p>
<p>According to what our therapist and the counselor at the school has said to us, research has shown just the opposite. I tried searching from the opposite view as suggested above, but I found nothing. Here’s a Time Mag Article that reports research that long term inpatient treatment exposes lower risk kids to much higher use kids, thus glamorizing harder core drugs. [Does</a> Group Therapy Lead Teen Drug Abusers to Use More? - TIME](<a href=“http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2003160-1,00.html]Does”>http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2003160-1,00.html)</p>
<p>There are apparently only three other kids in this weekly group, all more or less very similar in use/abuse. I really don’t know that much about the details, but am supposed to be getting that info shortly. I admit it ticks me off that she can essentially make me responsible for a medical bill via my insurance, but I have no rights to the details unless she’s willing to share them? The law is definitely frustrating in that way. BUT because D is willing to share them now, I will get more detailed info shortly.</p>
<p>BTW- D did not “freak” or otherwise blow a gasket when we told her about the journal. But honestly, I think that’s because her T was there. As we told her, it was time to put all our cards on the table, and while I didn’t rattle off specifics, she knows what she wrote. So we left it as This is what we now knew, the therapist now knows and D is expected to be a lot more forthcoming in therapy and there will be some new rules about using her car, checking in, etc. I honestly think a load had been lifted for D, but we surely have a long way to go. So far she seems alright with our dolling out her ADD meds. I’ll put them in a weekly container so essentially she wouldn’t have access to more than seven days worth regardless but even that will stay here at home. We don’t have a lot of alcohol around the house regardless, but what we do have is either locked up or counted (beer).</p>
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<p>That was not what I proposed. However, I did not want to address what I found in the journal by MY freaking out and REACTING, which I easily could have done. Called her names, got in her face by being disappointed, shaming her, blasting her “friends” etc etc. What good could possibly come from that? I wanted the discovery to become an opportunity to really do the work necessary to do things differently as she specifically said she wanted to do in her journal! The therapist there because a) there were definitely things I wanted her to know as a professional and 2) I saw nothing good about D potentially freaking out about privacy when the point wasn’t that I read it, but what it revealed. I didn’t want D shutting down as a defensive response and it becoming all about punishment (both us punishing her and her punishing us) vs true help. This doesn’t excuse the behavior or leave her unaccountable forever. But it just didn’t make productive sense in my opinion to use a bazooka when a hammer might be far more effective, open some lines of communication and cause less overall damage going forward. And bottom line… I specifically said, "while I am sorry if you feel I violated your privacy, I am NOT sorry, but in fact, thankful that we can now work on things in a more honest and direct way.</p>
<p>ShakenParent-I am sorry your daughter is having a hard time, it sounds very painful for both of you.</p>
<p>The only thing I can offer is this: did you know you can “ignore” certain posters? Look under your Control Panel and follow the settings. I have found this to be a great feature.</p>
<p>FWIW, I too think you handled it very well. A lot of parents believe the scorched earth policy with issues like this and kids, especially adult kids, works but I don’t think it does. One of the nice parts about meeting with a therapist like that is they usually will control the situation, not allow it to become out of hand, threatening, etc. I am well aware of tough love and other things like that and yes there are times when the bazooka is called for, but not as first steps, that is the nuclear option so to speak IMO. </p>
<p>It sounds like what you did was rational and more importantly, you seem to have made it seem more like love then revenge based in anger, you made it about more for concern about her then in anger at what she may have been doing. IME a lot of parents explode more because they are angry the child is violating some ideas of moral codes or ‘what other people think’ or often feeling guilty it is their fault and turning it outwards (ya know, the ‘I raised them right, not to do such things, how could they, etc’). Given the shaky state your feel your D is in, you took an approach that to me is more about concern for her (obviously, all parents are feeling that, yelling or not) and I think it may work. With any kind of addiction one of the keys is helping limit access to temptation, doesn’t matter whether it is sex, food, smoking or booze, and you are doing that; rather then ‘punishing’ her, you are helping limit her access to tempation, by restricting her driving thus going out, her meds, etc…you have left her with some dignity, rather then trying to degrade her to make her obey, and for me that is how I would handle it. </p>
<p>FWIW, with the therapist as far as I know there are no ethical or licensing standards that require her to have told your D (disclaimer, not a therapist, but looked at one point into training to become one, and I read up on it…) what you said. She does have confidentiality in not telling what your D said in session, and I suspect she would also back off from giving you advice unless you were working with her with your D in tandem (not sure about that one). I think she wanted to tell D to keep her trust, afraid if D found out you had told T what was going on and didn’t tell her it would violate the trust. </p>
<p>I wish you well, all I can do is hope and pray (literally) that it comes to a better place:)</p>
<p>"We seem to be a generation of parents who bend over backwards. Dont upset the kids, heaven forbid, they might get cranky. We act as if shutting down is better then acting out and pushing back. Its the same thing. If your husband just shut down, would you go, poor baby? "</p>
<p>I find this to be condescending and quite frankly stupid, this is the same regurgitated crap I hear time and again, it is the same rant of the right blaming Dr. Spock and “permissiveness” for ‘the decline of civilization’ (course, read up sometime about when they were young…<em>grrr</em>).All that is is the old parental power dynamics, I am the parent, and D****it I know best, and the best answer is a kick in the butt, etc. </p>
<p>I don’t dispute that some parents have gone to far, they want to be the kids friend instead of a parent, give in too easily, etc, there is reality to that, but that is dealing with kids who are otherwise normal. Ultimately we are the parents and have to act as that, but there is a difference between being a parent and being an unsensitive jerk, especially as kids get older and are more and more their own person. Sorry, but assuming that a kid who is quiet is being manipulative, or that the OP was afraid of D’s reaction and then making fun of her as some sort of wimp is stupid and unfair. First of all, you don’t know the situation well, you don’t know the D, and you assume she is just a teenage brat? You also kindly forgot the girl has other issues, you don’t take alderall for the fun of it, and the OP knows her daughter and I am sure can tell when she is being moody and when it is more then that; I wonder how you would feel if reading your posts I told you your kids much be wrecks because you are such a crappy mom? (Not saying you are, but how would you feel).</p>
<p>When a kid has issues, whatever they are, you don’t gain points or do anything by treating them harshly or with contempt or not understanding their feelings. OP didn’t wimp out, she saw her D in trouble and instead of reacting (which yes, as a member of the male contingent, is common with men) she thought about what to do, to not make things worse. and I commend her for it. With a kid in trouble, using the sledgehammer often causes them to fall deeper off the rails, not back on it, and at the age of 18 you can’t do what you did at 4, sorry. More importantly, why should a kid trust a parent who acts like a total jerk, bullies them, dismisses their problems as ‘being a brat’, etc? Give the OP a break, she knows her daughter a lot better then you do or could know.</p>