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<p>I really disagree with this statement. Of course people would speak out; why wouldn’t they?</p>
<p>I have already addressed this upthread, oldfort.</p>
<p>I’m not saying Greek life is bad and people shouldn’t join or the like. Just speaking up and saying they’re not perfect. Rushers should really keep an observant eye when “shopping”. Researching the background on whatever fraternity or sorority they’re interested in is a must, along, asking around the campus and those in the group. </p>
<p>I’ve seen the positives and negatives first hand. There are aspects that turn away and some that intrigue me. </p>
<p>Niquil - how have you seen the positive and negatives first hand? Are you in the Greek life?<br>
I think most of our kids would shop around and keep their eyes open before they commit. I assume you are a college student? Is there any reason why you think you would have better insight than other college students?</p>
<p>Many questions…</p>
<p>How have you seen the positive and negatives first hand?
I’ve personally seen them. Whether it be the rushing experience, the parties, the many “aftermath”, being involved in fundraisers and seeing the positive impact on the community.First hand experience.</p>
<p>Are you in the Greek life?
Yes.</p>
<p>I assume you are a college student?
Yes, I am a college student.</p>
<p>Is there any reason why you think you would have better insight than other college students?
I view this as an invalid question considering I do not claim I have “better insight than other college students”. </p>
<p>This year, I was fortunate to see the good, the bad, and the ugly. There are some who benefit from the Greek system. There are others who get pulled under from the negative aspects of Greek life (i.e Drinking, sex, drugs).</p>
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<p>That is the typical stereotype of fraternities.</p>
<p>Really, does it matter what you or I <em>think</em> goes on at Yale fraternities? It seems to me that this is for OP’s son to explore and determine whether he fits in (not whether the entire student body would enjoy it). OP’s son is no doubt bright enough to evaluate what is being offered, and knows what non-Greek students at Yale think about fraternities, since he is one.</p>
<p>My opinion as the parent of a Yale student who was very active in Greek life, is that if a student enjoys an active social life and would like to develop some strong relationships with other Yale men that will likely be life-long, definitely look at the fraternities. Worst case, if he ends up not liking it, he can quit.</p>
<p>“My feeling is that, especially due to the limited number of frats, it will attract primarily the jocks, those interested in hard drinking, and those who are misogynistic.”</p>
<p>What college student (at a “normal” college, not a Liberty University type) couldn’t get as much alcohol as he or she wanted, without having to join the Greek system?</p>
<p>Anyway, it’s clear that you just don’t like fraternities, if you think they are all about jocks, heavy drinking, and being misogynistic. Some systems are good; some systems, not so good. Within each campus, there are “good” houses and “trouble” houses. Without specific first hand knowledge of Yale’s system, what “feeling” can you really have that is meaningful?</p>
<p>Collegealum, you went to MIT, right? Would you say the MIT frats are only about “jocks, heavy drinking and being misogynistic”?</p>
<p>Niquil - My apology, I didn’t know you are in Greek life. I think you are a girl, so you are in a sorority. I would be interested in your perspective on what is bad. Has your experience been more positive or negative? How much research did you do? Did it turn out as you expected? If not, are you going to stay?</p>
<p>My father will be 80 next week and still meets with his frat brothers once a year. His frat is also giving each of my kids a scholarship for college, and has given them to my two nephews and niece. </p>
<p>My lifelong friends are my sorority sisters. Although many of us drifted apart right after college, belonging to a national organization gave us a way to stay in touch and we have something in common even if we weren’t the best of friends while in school. My daughter’s godmothers are sorority sisters. My niece is now in the same sorority and I hope one of my daughters joins too (other daughter going to a school that doesn’t have a chapter). It’s just fun to have that in common.</p>
<p>Membership is not just about drinking and parties. Every house has a philanthropy and a lot of volunteer hours are put in. It’s not for everyone, but I liked it.</p>
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<p>Let me clarify. While I do believe that the jocks, heavy drinkers, and those who are misogynistic would gravitate toward the Greek system more than other groups, I don’t believe that this means that these characteristics would necessarily be dominant in the Greek system unless the Greek system is so small that there isn’t room for diversity. </p>
<p>Note that I acknowledge that these groups are at least somewhat distinct (i.e., jocks are not misogynists.) </p>
<p>MIT’s Greek system is so huge that it houses about half of the men. There were 3-4 fraternities that were totally stereotypical (out of 40.) If the frat system at some point shrunk from 40 to 4, I would expect that the Animal House types would dominate the Greek scene more than they do. </p>
<p>So I was bored and so I did a little more research on the Yale frats if the OP is still interested:</p>
<p><a href=“yaleherald.com”>yaleherald.com;
Several fraternities and sororities have chapters at Yale, including:
- Alpha Delta Phi fraternity [1] “mostly lacrosse, squash, heavyweight crew, and a few sailors”
- Alpha Epsilon Pi fraternity [2] — Jewish fraternity
- Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity — African-American fraternity
- Chi Psi fraternity [3] new fraternity, re-instituted in 2013 after a 50 year absence from campus
“The fraternity is not affiliated with any particular athletic team, and the majority of its members are not varsity athletes, Herbert added. Their current membership includes a few Reserve Officers’ Training Corps members, several members of the Yale Political Union’s Tory Party, a member of the Freshman Class Council, and two members of Yale’s club skeet and trap team, he said”
<a href=“50 years later, Chi Psi fraternity returns to Yale - Yale Daily News”>http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2013/03/26/chi-psi-fraternity-returns-to-campus/</a> - Delta Kappa Epsilon fraternity “football, baseball, crew, golf, and soccer.” It was suspended for 5 years for pledge event in which they chanted misogynistic comments at women
<a href=“Prestigious Yale Fraternity Accused of Chants Offensive to Women - ABC News”>http://abcnews.go.com/Health/US/yale-fraternity-scrutiny-offensive-pledge-chants/story?id=11918602</a> - Lambda Upsilon Lambda fraternity – Hispanic fraternity
- Psi Upsilon fraternity – became co-ed about 5 years ago. “The fraternity was founded in the winter of 2004 by a diverse group of sophomore friends, including members of the football team as well as literary magazines…”
<a href=“At Psi U, even sisters can be brothers - Yale Daily News”>http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2008/11/11/at-psi-u-even-sisters-can-be-brothers/</a> - Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity [4] "SAE is often characterized as a group of “rich preppy-boy legacies” and rowers, " <a href=“Tombs and Taps, An inside look at Yale's Fraternities, Sororities and Societies”>http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Tombs_and_Taps.htm</a>
" longest rush process of all the fraternities " <a href=“Deconstructing Yale fraternities, drink (or shot) by drink - Yale Daily News”>http://yaledailynews.com/weekend/2002/02/08/deconstructing-yale-fraternities-drink-or-shot-by-drink/</a> - Sigma Chi fraternity [5] “The boys are well-dressed, entrepreneurial and serious about success; Sigma Chi boasts the highest GPA of any fraternity at Yale.” article by a female student
<a href=“Deconstructing Yale fraternities, drink (or shot) by drink - Yale Daily News”>http://yaledailynews.com/weekend/2002/02/08/deconstructing-yale-fraternities-drink-or-shot-by-drink/</a>
Incidentally, sigma chi was kind of like this at MIT as well. - Sigma Nu fraternity “heavily populated by members of non-jock but preppy sports like golf, soccer, and tennis.”
<a href=“Tombs and Taps, An inside look at Yale's Fraternities, Sororities and Societies”>http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Tombs_and_Taps.htm</a> - Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity [6] --this place has serious legal problems since there was an accident at a Harvard-Yale tailgating party. They killed someone backing up in a U-haul which was carrying a bunch of kegs. <a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?; <a href=“Yale fraternity Sigma Phi Epsilon sued over crash that killed student | Daily Mail Online”>Yale fraternity Sigma Phi Epsilon sued over crash that killed student | Daily Mail Online;
- Zeta Psi fraternity [8] “made up mostly of football and basketball players”, was embroiled in a controversy about yelling misogynist comments at Women’s Center 5 years ago <a href=“Yale University "Sluts" Strike Back At Sexist Frat Boys”>Yale University "Sluts" Strike Back At Sexist Frat Boys; described as being full of “ex-athletes”
- Beta theta pi – not sure they exist any more, used to be mostly swimmers.</p>
<p>Collegealum, you might want to check your sources a bit. Conspiracyarchive hardly seems reputable.<br>
Anyway, someone else"s opinions that this group is like this and that group is like that is NOT what someone considering Greek life needs. They need to meet the people themselves and form their own conclusions. </p>
<p>And with all due respect, if you’re just “finding out” that Alpha Epsilon Pi is a Jewish fraternity, then you’re just as much of a neophyte in the whole thing as the OP and her son are. In which case, why pontificate? I don’t know anything about the fraternities at Yale, but I’m not pretending that by googling, that I do.</p>
<p>Also to keep in mind that a house’s reputation changes every few years. The best way to find out is to meet people at each house.</p>
<p>OP here. After taking time to breathe and several very helpful prms, I have decided that I am going to just sit back and let my son follow his own path I have raised my son to be an independent thinker/doer and not to worry about fitting any kind of preconceived notion of whom he should be. My son has almost always (he is only 18) 
made good/wise decisions and has his feet firmly planted on the ground. If he receives a bid and decides to join a fraternity, I am sure that he will make it a positive experience.</p>
<p>BTW - A cappella is actually a huge thing on Yale’s campus. There is a two week rush period (used to be a month) full of auditions, lunches, singing desserts, late night walks etc… before the students are tapped into a group at the beginning of the fall semester during Tap Night. </p>
<p>Here is an article from yesterday about Chi Psi.</p>
<p><a href=“HERBERT: Starting Chi Psi - Yale Daily News”>http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2014/01/27/herbert-starting-chi-psi/</a> </p>
<p>I have a D at Yale, but have not heard about Greek life from her at all, just following this thread since it is about Yale.</p>
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<p>!?! Not in the 70s, it wasn’t! ;)</p>
<p>As OldFort said, the character of houses tends to change over time.</p>
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<p>The problem is that it is very difficult to be an independent thinker while pledging. Often you are doing something you were not told about ahead of time. For example, they may wake you up in the middle of the night and tell you you are going on a trip to Massachusetts. This is the worst for people with heavy commitments elsewhere, such as glee club. Being an independent thinker is hard when the awkwardness of leaving your friends and not following through on a commitment (i.e., fulfilling pledge demands) are leveraged against other things you value; this is coupled with the fact that you have little time to think about it. Because saying “no” to an individual activity often amounts to depledging. </p>
<p>At the very least, I suggest he takes time to write down what he’s willing to do and not willing to do during the pledge process so that it’s easier to say no in the heat of the moment. He doesn’t need to even share it with the brothers necessarily ahead of time. It might help him to have made the decision before the heat of the moment.</p>
<p>A list of "no"s might be:
- no more than ‘X’ hours spent on fraternity/pledging activities each week.
- no misogynistic chants
- need to be told about commitments at least a week in advance
- nothing illegal
- no drinking rituals at all or no drinking games as a part of pledge hazing.</p>
<p>He can decide for himself what his dealbreakers are, but do it ahead of time. Because if he blanches at any one of these, the response is going to be that he’s making a big deal out of nothing.</p>
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<p>This seems like terrible advice. Sure, talking to the people in the fraternity is part of it, but when making a decision, you don’t only restrict yourself to the people trying to sell you something. Since people who have depledged will probably be hard to come by, the next best source to find the negative things about a fraternity is another Yale students or sources which quote Yale students.<br>
By the way, the parents of people in frats rarely know what goes on there either; they may not even know what their kid isn’t happy about until they make the decision to leave. </p>
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<p>Some do, some don’t. Deke sounds exactly the same as it did 50 years ago. </p>
<p>I think the frats associated with a particular varsity sport tend to stay the same since they recruit from the same pool of people year after year.</p>
<p>I was in a fraternity back in the 80s, and my advice would be … late to the party. I think you got this one exactly right OP.</p>