<p>That’s fine. But that holds no weight with me because I have encountered a lot of people who have had no exposure to people like this.</p>
<p>Let me put it this way. You are familiar with the concept of a cult, yes? They exist. I know this, and I know that some of the behavior of cultists is just beyond my understanding in a superlative fashion. Yet never have I actually met someone in a cult. When I was first told about how they functioned, I was incredulous. The fact that “I have never encountered a group with these characteristics” and at first “remain[ed] skeptical that such a group of young people exists, anywhere” has no bearing on the fact that they do.</p>
<p>And if it sounds like I am comparing my friendship circle to a cult, it’s because I am.</p>
<p>In other words, I had never met people like them before I met them. But you literally have to know them personally in order to even understanding how non-standard their mindset is.</p>
<p>Again, how old are these people? Those of us who have a bit of life experience are not really thinking about anybody’s “mindset.”</p>
<p>And if this is a cult, let me say that I have known people who are in cults, and it is not unusual for them to leave the cult and to behave quite differently afterwards.</p>
<p>How old? A good range would be 20-80. And mindset is something that exists regardless of how you view it or even thinking about it.</p>
<p>And it is not a cult, but I would say that it shares some characteristics with them, such as in some cases extreme isolation from those who do not agree with the religious ideals. </p>
<p>And to address your statement of people leaving, the point is that at that moment they are no longer part of the cult. I’m not interested in discussing how likely it is that people change their minds; that’s not my concern here. My sole interest is in establishing behavior that is in conflict with held norms, which of course necessities that those norms are held at the time. So they immediately cease to be part of the equation. I take it that given that that is the only thing you stated, you have no problems with the consequences of the basic assumptions I am making, so this matter is settled.</p>
<p>I apologize if you found my words offensive. But demeanor is only so relevant to me – posts that state, “I mean this kindly, but you are an idiot” (perhaps in more words) are the same to me as posts that say “You are an idiot.” Not claiming that you do this, by the way. I appreciate your effort but please do not retract your claws. That goes for everyone.</p>
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<p>Yes; now you finally understand. They are TLM fans. Big ones. And Opus Dei is heavily involved/featured (Opus Dei also runs high schools that some students attended).</p>
<p>And you HAVE heard of Robert Hanssen, I hope? Most Americans who know Opus Dei exist only know of it because of Hanssen. And I’m sure that nobody who knew him ever dreamed of what he was doing. Hey, even when he confessed the part apart giving info to the Russians, he still didn’t tell them about the pornography. </p>
<p>All I’m saying is…don’t assume that everyone in Opus Dei lives entirely by the rules. The whole corporal mortification bit is a very short distance away from S&M , IMO.</p>
<p>Sorry to break in on the Baelor show, but I haven’t read through the entire thread and was wondering if anybody has addressed how miserably the “purity pledge” has failed. I have seen statistics of 88% failure rate. I’m sure those who took it believed it at the time… but that was before hormones, circumstances, changes of beliefs happen. I would think it would be hard then for those young adults to talk to their parents about birth control. Giving information to your kid is not giving them your stamp of approval, it is simply giving them the tools to prevent unwanted pregnacy or prevention of STD’s, and possibly saving their life.</p>
<p>OK…Back to the subject of discussion. I haven’t read through all of the comments, but I highly recommend that all college kids use 2 kinds of birth control. For example: pills/condoms. This helps with extra pregnancy prevention (there is no 100% protection) and disease control. I think each part of the couple should be responsible for their part, but I told my kids they have to prevent possible diseases as much as pregnancy. Yes, as a health professional, I have discussed this often with my son and daughter. I never cared if it was uncomfortable for them, I saw it as health care information that I wanted them to know. And I would take my daughter/son to a Drs appointment if they ask me to go. No sweat no problems. Of course they could do it alone, but if they wanted a recommendation or support there would be no judgement on my end and wouldn’t give a good d#@* if anybody else thought it was strange.</p>
<p>back to the OP and the issue of birth control. From the many conversations I’ve had with kids at other colleges than my own children, it is very common for freshman to have easy access to condoms right on their dorm floor. The kids are often given some, then told who on their floor keeps the supply if someone runs out. I think this is a smart idea as there is never the excuse of, “Well, it was late, we were drunk and no one wanted to drive, and all the stores were closed, so we skipped the condom.” Because we know when college kids are drunk, that’s the least reliable time for them to remember what their promises to their parents and values are.</p>
<p>No, I have never heard of Robert Hanssen. Thank you for letting me know – I’ll look him up. Also, corporal mortification is no longer sanctioned by the Church except in very particular instances. I have not yet heard of an instance of corporal mortification.</p>
<p>The misconceptions about Opus Dei is are unfortunate, but exactly what they are, so I don’t worry about them. </p>
<p>These Opus Dei people do live by the rules, at least theology of the body. If they didn’t they wouldn’t bother with weekly discussion groups about it.</p>
<p>D’s bathroom on her hall when I dropped her off freshman year had an envelope tacked to the wall with an assortment of condoms in it. Takes away the “oops, nothing was available” excuse.</p>
<p>How can you be a member of Opus Dei and NOT have heard of Robert Hannsen. I wonder if regularly visiting strip clubs and videotaping sex with your wife without her knowledge as well as treason against your country are all lesser crimes than pre-martial sex.</p>
<p>Baelor - Opus Dei is a dangerous group. Run away as fast as you can.</p>
<p>I am not actually a member of Opus Dei.
And Robert Hannsen is one man. I have not heard of every bad person ever, shockingly. I still fail to see his relevance. </p>
<p>And those are all serious crimes. But I am not leaving the country simply because he is an American, just as I am not going to dismiss Opus Dei simply because he was a member thereof.</p>
<p>Please take your idiotic and offensive statements where they belong, which is not here.</p>
<p>Resources:</p>
<p>Related to my “knowing” about my friends. We are not in any way officially affiliated with Opus Dei, although some come from Opus Dei backgrounds or participate in Opus Day activities.</p>
<p>Taken from Wikipedia: “About 20% of Opus Dei are celibate. They live in special residential centers where they lead extremely-structured lives— critics say this practice isolates its members from the rest of society and allows Opus Dei to have nearly total control over its members’ environments.” Now we in no way do this (live in special residential centers, for example), but the friendship circle has a unique dynamic that leads to a sort of closed sub-environment.</p>