But to do that on limited resources means they need to be very real with themselves and recognize their limitations. It's a fall back to Plan B before Plan A goes to heck. <<
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This particular Plan A should never have gotten off the drawing board. Sinking $144K into an OOS university, with limited resources, to study engineering with no HS Physics and Cs in HS PreCalc and Calc1. this scheme was nuts from the get-go and was doomed to fail.
OP, if your friend and her parents are locked into engineering, I don’t know if it’s your place to suggest other majors. you are not paying for her school, her parents are, and you don’t want to create conflict with unsolicited advice that directly contradicts her/their stated goals.
the fact that she is struggling now does not necessarily mean she has no future in engineering and must switch majors. it COULD mean that, or it could mean that HS left her completely unprepared. but it DOES mean that if she insists on engineering, she needs to enroll in CC this summer and take PreCalc 1. right now she has no stable foundation upon which she can build an engineering career. she needs to establish that foundation first.
Summer 2017 – PreCalc 1
Fall 2017 – PreCalc 2; 100-level College Physics 1
Spring 2018 – Calc 1; 100-level College Physics 2
Summer 2018 – Calc 2; 200-level Calculus-Based General Physics 1
Fall 2018 – Calc 3; 200-level Calculus-Based General Physics 2; Engineering Statics
Spring 2019 – Linear Algebra; Differential Equations; Engineering Dynamics
that is her core right there. if she continues to struggle, then maybe she needs to look for another major. but if she focuses on that core and succeeds, she will have a solid foundation for transferring and getting a BS in Engineering. plus she has a chance to fix her GPA by replacing those Cs and Ds she is getting now with As and Bs.
now if she wants she can add other CC courses in Chem 1+2, basic circuitry, engineering graphics/drafting, C++ and Java programming, economics, ethics/philosophy, fine arts and humanities, social sciences, and English. but I would be careful of adding too much that might distract her from succeeding in the engineering core laid out above.
@DadTwoGirls actually JMU’s engineering degree is rather generic… you don’t specialize in the typical engineering majors like Chem, Mech, Aero, etc. It’s considered an interdisciplinary major. Very hands on, project based, but you get a degree in Engineering period. It is ABET certified and they do offer the 1st PE test, although I don’t know which one they take.
Health Sciences seems to follow a similar path. Their Department of Health Sciences offers a degree they title “Basic” (honest). Don’t know what you do with it but it’s there. They have a well regarded Nursing program, and I know a fair number of students move on in graduate medical type programs (NP, med school, PT, that type thing). So they must be doing something right. But have to say I don’t exactly understand their engineering and health sciences programs
A weak foundation in calculus will just lead to even more/worse struggles in her engineering classes down the road. I have a B.S. in Chem E, and just about all of the lower and upper level engineering and science classes I took required a thorough grasp of calculus and other math skills and tools.
It is not a matter of simply squeaking through her calculus classes and never needing to think about or use those skills again.
All engineering and science majors must have a good foundation in math, especially calculus. Those math skills will be used daily for problem solving in most/all of her future engineering, math, and science courses.
The fact that she is failing calculus now means that she would not even meet prerequisite reauirements to continue as a science or engineering major. Upper level classes just get harder a d even more math focused. Your friend is in over her head and really needs to rethink majoring in engineering or science. She may end up on academic probation anyway, which will force her to change direction.
As other posters pointed out, it is often difficult to graduate as an engineering major in 4 years if all goes well, making the finances even more difficult for her parents, too. If she wants to stay at JMU, it seems that she needs to pursue another major. With such a weak math background, short term emedial classes may not help enough to turn things around.
As her friend, all you can do is try to help her see the true gravity of the situation, which she may still refuse to consider, and show her support, whatever the outcome. Do her parents know how poor her grades are and the amount if stress she is under? Ask her if she is clinging to this path because it is her dream for herself, or just because her parents want it so badly. If they are in the dark, or do not have the full story on how dire things actually are, encourage her to reach out to them.
Also encourage her to visit the counseling center at JMU to help her deal with her stress and anxiety, especially as related to disappointing her parents, herself, her friends by not meeting career path expectations.
Another idea is to suggest that she meet with her professors and the math/tutoring center and try to determine what the root cause is. Identify where her weaknesses are and develop a plan to correct them. We are assuming that based on the op posts that there is a definite weakness in math as indicate by the AP score and problems with her courses but maybe there are other issues. You need more than a strong math background to excel in engineering.
If she has the basic aptitude for math and science, you can fix the foundation but it takes time and money. If money is tight then a course change might be need. If she needs to take pre-calculus and non calculus based physics then it would more sense to consider CC to correct the problems and then return to a four year college. Taking remedial type courses at an expensive college just doesn’t make sense. Wien2nc suggest one such plan. However, I would be hesitant to recommend taking calculus 2 or a lab course during a summer session unless you are strong in those areas.
Also keep in mind it might just be that she is not cut out for engineering. My daughter is bright and doing extremely well in a stem field but just can’t visualize how things go together. There is no way she could be an engineer even though she excels at math. She just doesn’t think like an engineer. That okay, she has an amazing ability to analysis data and see connections that I just can’t see.
I would suggest that your main advice to her is that she should get more advice, from professors, her advisor, etc. They will carry more weight than yours, even if you are very close friends.
She’s not being weeded. Being weeded means you actually have the background to pass a course. Being weeded is that the school has 100 qualified candidates but only need 20 to pass.
Honestly–she doesn’t sound like she was ever qualified for an engineering program.
Yes. She needs tough love. She needs someone to say “get over it, figure this out before it all blows up in your face.” And do it now. She needs major guidance and isn’t getting any strong messages. Sounds like too many people “hinting” she needs to change career course but not wanting to do so directly.
Unfortunately, you aren’t the best person to give that advice but you can certainly help steer her in the right direction and give some encouragement that things CAN get on track. And she’ll be happier for it. (Send her here…)
Trying to be “nice” and “not hurt feelings” while someone you think is drowning is not being a friend nor helpful.
Imagine how it “feels” to have to drop out of school, undergo stress when you are failing a class (you already tried to save her that).
Sometimes people need a direct wake-up call. From friends. Peers. Let them be mad at you for awhile if that’s what it takes.
If you are right–and she listens, you save her a bunch of turmoil.
If you are wrong (and she ends up doing great) then you made her think harder about her choices. Another plus.
You could also point out that most college students change their major. I have seen estimates ranging from 70% to 80% of college students changed their major. This is normal.
I agree that pretty much all that OP can do is to encourage their friend to consider other majors, encourage their friend to talk to advisors and career counselor’s about a potential change, and be supportive. Whether OP or OP’s parents can talk to the friend’s parents is something that only they can know.
This might be a reminder to all of us parents not to push our kids too strenuously in a direction that they don’t want to go. Thanks to OP for bringing this up, since this is actually quite an important discussion.
Sounds like she isn’t cut out for engineering. Sorry. But cheating is unacceptable. Both of you violated honors codes and could risk expulsion form your schools. And if you are still a HS student, this could be very damaging.
If she went to your high school, you may want to check on your own math preparation before going to college.
Here is a math placement test that you can use to check your knowledge of various high school math concepts and tell you which, if any, you should review before taking more advanced math courses in college: http://math.tntech.edu/e-math/placement/
It looks like JMU has a mandatory math placement exam for entering students: http://www.jmu.edu/1st-semester/module1home.shtml
It seems odd that your friend could struggle so much in a math course that is presumably the proper placement based on that test.
Sometimes, college/departmental placement exams don’t do a very good job of placing students in the appropriate class.
And this isn’t only an undergrad issue. Recalled reading an account from the Chronicle from a former PhD candidate from a respectable/elite U who recounted one of the reasons why she and her cohort had such a hard time and a high washout rate was because the coursework and prelim exams in her department were made far too easy in relation to the actual oral/written examinations.
The first step is getting her to sit back and look at all this with a little perspective. She needs to identify her strengths and weaknesses, and balance her actual results with those misty high school ideas of what she’s meant to do. As mentioned above, most kids change majors because most of them grow and change and fail and succeed in unexpected ways between 16 and 22. I had a different major listed in the student directory for four straight years and I still got out on time. It’s a matter of being self-aware and honest with yourself, and being comfortable telling your parents that they’re spending too much money to get this poor a result both in terms of grades and joy. College should not be an odious burden, and a job based on subjects that were this big a battle will not make for an enjoyable career. Not to make this even bigger for her at this moment, but this is a life thing as much a grades thing.
I’m guessing she’s missed registration for fall semester, so charting a new course might be more difficult than if this conversation had been had in January. Regardless, it sounds like if she’s getting As and Bs in her other classes that CC might be too big a step back. She can probably stay at JMU if she can figure out what does interest her and craft a path to graduation. Get her to consider the idea of a direction change and then get her to reach out to the folks at her school that can help her make it happen.
You mentioned that her parents are “enamored” of the idea of her being an engineer, but they are likely not enamored of the idea of their daughter being miserable, stressed and taking 5 or 6 years to finish school.
I have a college freshman in a biology-related major that I feel she could get weeded out of next year (and she only has to take a year of physics (algebra-based), stats, and one semester of slightly dumbed down calculus). I will have no qualms about supporting, or even encouraging, a change of major if she can’t get through the year with an acceptable GPA. She’s doing well in bio and chem classes this first year, but next year is probably going to be at the upper limits of her math abilities (Math was her lowest ACT score by far (27), dropped AP Stat, struggled a little in pre-Calc). I think she can do it, but I won’t be disappointed in her if it’s too much. I think a lot of parents might feel the same.
It sounds as though both the parents and your friend are enamored with the idea of engineering, I’m wondering if the friend is just buying in because she wants to please her parents. She must first recognize and acknowledge this isn’t the right choice for herself. If you can get her to go, I agree with others who suggested going to the career counseling center (or whatever it’s called on her campus) and having some testing done - aptitude and interest. An academic advisor probably isn’t in the best position to suggest a specific alternative - s/he can just recognize there is a problem. The career center should be able to do some assessments that would give her more specific direction. I think being armed with the conclusions drawn by an objective third party might aid her in her discussions with her parents. She could have a more complete plan of what she wanted to try rather than just saying “not engineering.” Being prepared with an alternative might help in convincing her parents.
^The office at JMU is called Career and Academic Planning. It is located in the Student Success Center, along with other student support services.
Her academic advisor is also there to help her understand repercussions of academic choices, and connect her with resources on campus. Encourage her to reach out.
Fall 2017 registration has not yet started at JMU. Students have the opportunity to adjust their schedules after initial registration appointments end through May, and again in August through the 2nd Tuesday of classes.
OP, you’re a good friend, but you can’t save her from herself. You’re doing the right thing to tell her that you think she should change her major, but you’re trying to do too much what with researching potential majors for her and all. Writing that essay for her wasn’t just unethical; it was a sign that you’re taking on way too much responsibility here. Please disengage yourself and turn some of that protective instinct towards volunteering with local kids or at an animal shelter or something. (I’m mostly kidding about that, especially since as a senior you’re presumably off to college next year yourself, but seriously, you should think about majors and careers that make use of your desire to help others.)
