<p>Dear parents,
I guess this is just a place to voice my discontent with the whole college admissions process, but I’d like for my voice to make a difference and just give a warning to all the parents of students who are applying to schools this year or in future years.
I have been the top in my grade at one of the best and most selective high schools in Canada for 3 years now. My extra curriculars were great, my recommendations were outstanding, my scores were great, I come off well in interviews, did awesome in my auditions, I do believe I have a lot of character and a sense of humour, and my essays, I felt, were some of the best I’ve ever written. I was definitely a contender for any of the Ivies or top universities, and to be completely honest, I thought I would get into one of my top 3 - Northwestern (School of Music and A&S), Stanford, and Yale. My school was also very confident I would get into at least one. I have been recruited by Yale for years now (since my sophomore year) and all my teachers and my guidance counselor expected me to end up at an Ivy. I put so much amount of work, money, and effort not to mention have some serious fights with my parents over the process, but I figured it would be worth it in the end. I did apply to 8 schools not all of them were reach schools although none were “safety”; however, nowadays I don’t think anything is a safety anymore. April comes around and one after the other rejection or waitlist. I was in shock, my parents in shock, my school in shock. I felt like it was a total waste of time and not to mention money and to be quite honest I felt like I was not going to university the next year. I could not believe it, top in the grade and I would not be going to university.
Thank goodness I applied to Canadian universities. (I live in Canada but am an American citizen). Even then, I did not get into one and so far have gotten into two - I decided I’m going to University of Toronto’s School of Music. Not too shabby, but not what I planned at all. I am extremely excited to go to U of T and am totally going to make the most of it. I’m so happy I got into a selective music school, but it is still incredibly difficult to get over the feelings of rejection, the feeling of wasted time and energy, maybe even a waste of my entire year, and the feeling of letting everyone down. I am also very excited that I am going to university, despite the US universities efforts to prevent this, I never thought it would have ever become a question for me.
I guess what I am trying to warn you about is MAKE SURE that your child does not think they are ever a “sure in” at any school. No one is ever a sure in, you do not know what colleges are actually looking for. Do not put so much pressure on your child to get into a top school to the point that they will feel like a failure if they don’t. (My parents, by the way, are very happy nonetheless I’m going to U of T, although I did feel like I failed them at first).Do not make them lose their life over this process, it may be fruitless in the end, and after all this trying to go to school to learn. Does anyone remember that this is trying to get kids to go to school to learn? Why has it become such a competition? Universities should welcome the fact that so many smart students want to continue their education. They should be happy that there are so many smart kids nowadays. And most importantly, make sure your child has safety schools - true safety schools. You don’t want your child to end up in April with nothing but thin envelopes and wonder whether they are going to university at all.
I’m sure you all knew this already, but I guess it’s good to hear from a student who just finished the process.
Good luck to everyone.</p>
<p>Dear Music,
As a parent who went throught this 2 yrs ago, I feel your pain. We could not have asked much more of our D. Luckily, she selected and applied to different tiered schools both at the university and LAC levels…any one of which she would have been happy to attend. And, in the end, she is thriving at a college that was the right fit for her.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the field is not level…however, one must excel to remain competitive in the college admission process. There is still no guarantee of admission.</p>
<p>We are gearing up for D2 who is a rising junior. During dinner last night, H & I were trying to convince her that the 3rd AP course was unnecessary. ;)</p>
<p>Best of luck to you at U of T. Sounds like you have bright future ahead.</p>
<p>I’m sorry to read your story. But you give good advice. “You’re in” are some of the most destructive words appearing on CC and is why these days I rarely, if ever, visit the “What Are My Chances?” forum. Offering tempered views may get you the regard otherwise accorded to Ebenezer Scrooge’s younger malevolent brother or maybe Jack the Ripper.</p>
<p>This forum is full of warnings and examples of the risk of applying to very selective colleges. No matter how great you are or think you are, there are thousands like you applying. It is not unusual for very strong students to apply to numerous very selective schools and be rejected by all of them. At this time of year, you can browse the forums and find many examples.</p>
<p>In your case there seems to be an obvious problem. Based on your statements, it seems clear that you applied to the wrong schools. Yale has a strong graduate music program. As far as I know, Yale does not offer an undergrad music major. I don’t understand how you were able to audition for a program that does not exist. Certainly you were not “recruited” by Yale based on your music accomplishments and interests. Stanford has a very small UG music program with very few degrees awarded in music performance or general music studies. NWU does have a larger number of students majoring in music, but the program is still small. Depending on your instrument, there could have been few or no openings for this year.</p>
<p>Edad, but, even if applying to “good fit” schools, there is no guarantee. So often, people get on the board and comment that despite lower than average stats, they got into such-and-such reach school and rejoice that they found the secret to getting into a top school. So much of this process is luck - living in the right place, having a talent that the school wants this year (which is different than last year’s), and the like. One cannot take the rejections personally. My son had similar results as music<em>uofter despite excellent credentials. Fortunately, he had two saftety schools as his top two choices and he is going to one of them. He also applied to two top 20 LACs which seemed like they would be good fits and he knew kids with slightly lower credentials that had been accepted last year. He was waitlisted at one which was a match/reach (and he showed a lot of interest there - it was number 3 on his list) and rejected at the reach school (despite someone from his high school who is ranked much lower than he getting in there - an athlete). Music</em>uofter, I am sure things will be great for you. I know my son is going to a school which is perfect for him and in retrospect, he will be a lot happier there than he would have been at the other two. Good luck at the University of Toronto. You sound very mature and will do great.</p>
<p>Dear Music,</p>
<p>Nice post and a great warning to kids and parents everywhere. I hope high school juniors, especially, will take notice.</p>
<p>This sort of story is the reason parents need to approach the college admissions process with careful skepticism. They really need to talk down the reaches and talk up the safeties right from the start. Be sure to point out great things about ALL the schools and be alert to the problem of holding the reach schools on a pedestal. Not to underestimate your kids, but simply to keep things in perspective.</p>
<p>Good luck with school. I think you’ll do great at UT!</p>
<p>I applied to seven schools: 2 reaches, 4 pretty sures and 1 safety. I got into 1 reach, into 1 pretty sure and into the safety I was WL at 2 pretty sures. How bizarre is that? My cc at school says she was at a loss for words as to why I got into the reach and not some of the pretty sures. My friends (and not just from my hs that we can say we got bad advice from the cc) all have similar stories with different schools.</p>
<p>BTW, my college career counselor tried to talk me out of wasting my time applying to the reach to which I was accepted. I’m glad my parents ignored her advice on that!</p>
<p>edad- In no way was I trying to make out I am better than everyone else and I know there are many similar stories out there like mine on these forums. Nonetheless, it is still good to hear a different (although similar) story, from a different perspective. And again, as you probably read at the top of my post, I was mostly trying to say how unhappy I am with the admissions process. I was just trying to say what I had learned, not trying to act like my story is more important than anyone else’s.
Secondly, you have absolutely no say which school’s were good fits. I applied to Yale for very good reasons. I wanted to study both music and science at the time and did not mind getting a B.A. over a B.Mus. And, yes I did audition for many of these schools. And yes, Yale has been recruiting me since sophomore year: they were writing me letters, telling my guidance counselor to apply, and gave me a recruitment prize that is only handed to those going to Yale or will be accepted to Yale. They did all this not because of my music talent but my grades. Did you ever think they might recruit someone who is smart? So, really I think you have absolutely no say as whether I applied to the right schools or such an such school did or did not do this. You were not here with me during the process. Just because you find something unlikely doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
So next time watch what you say before you start claiming a person you don’t even know is lieing or making wrong choices in their life.</p>
<p>OP, what recruitment prize did Yale give you?</p>
<p>Wow, I thought this was just a post to warn parents about the admissions process and how to make it a little easier for their child. I see that so many people are having such offense about whether or not I was recruited by Yale. Just because you don’t believe it won’t matter to me and whether or not I post what prize it is, you still will not believe me. I know I got it, my school knows I got it, my parents know I got it, and Yale knows I got it. Whether or not YOU believe me, I couldn’t care less. Stick to the topic - college admissions processes, and how crazy they have become.</p>
<p>I’m sorry curmudgeon. I thought OP meant “Oh please”. Wow, I feel stupid. Anyway, now that I know it means Original Poster, I received the Yale Book Prize. I have heard high schools in the US give this out and it doesn’t mean anything. Whether other schools in the states give this out without meaning, my school gives it very rarely and it is only done when Yale makes a decision on it. In my school’s history the other two people who received it went to Yale. When my guidance counselor saw I received it, she said I would probably get into Yale.</p>
<p>music:</p>
<p>First, thanks for posting your experience. I think highly of U of T. I’m sure you’ll get a great education there! </p>
<p>I wonder how much of a track record your school has with Yale? How Yale interprets the significance of a Yale book prize depends largely on how well it knows the school and hence the criteria for awarding the prize to specific students. I am in no way disputing your qualifications; I just wonder whether Yale knew enough about your school to value its own Book Prize as you and your school did.</p>
<p>:eek: I was feeling a bit befuddled. Thanks for looking up the abbreviation. ;). Usually people don’t start swinging at me till the third or 4th post. LOL.</p>
<p>D had anomalies in her process, also (or what we viewed as anomalies anyway). The LAC’s ranked from mid teens-mid 40’s, and Uni’s ranked mid 30’s to mid 50’s, treated her better with merit aid as a rule than the ones ranked above 70 (6/7 top awards, 0/3 top awards respectively). She got into her top 3 uni and her top 3 LAC, both RD, but was waitlisted at Duke. I can’t explain it other than there appeared to be some geography at work at some schools and oft times some rural/urban reverse-commute thinking going on.</p>
<p>If you figure “it” (college admissions) out someday, I’ll help you market your solution to the puzzle. I’m just going to let it stay a mystery. LOL.</p>
<p>Congratulations on your Yale Book Award. For those who do not know, these awards are made by the Yale Alumni Clubs in order to stimulate quality applications. The awards are made in conjunction with local school administrations and have no connection to Yale admissions or admission decisions.</p>
<p>OP, I don’t think you are lying. I just don’t believe you had much understanding of the admissions process. Your choices were “wrong” at the very least because you were not admitted. Your idea of fit obviously did not match the determination of the admissions committees. There are lots of very good choices for a smart student with strong skills in music. I am sorry if you are disappointed and shocked. I am happy you were accepted into a good choice. You would have had more options if you had a better understanding of college admissions.</p>
<p>Thank you, Music, for sharing your story. I hope that parents and students heed your warning and don’t rationalize their own situations as being “different.” </p>
<p>Your story is not an isolated one, despite what some may want to believe. One girl in my daughter’s school who was expected to get into Harvard, Yale, and/or Princeton was rejected by all three despite her near-perfect (maybe even perfect) SATS, top grades, excellent recommendations, etc. My own daughter, who has strong legacy connections at both Princeton and Dartmouth and who probably would have gotten in five years ago, was rejected by both. And this is from a selective college prepatory school that, until this year, had a strong Ivy/top university placement record. Valedictorians are being rejected at ALL Ivies they applied to. The problem is that there are only so many spots at the top schools. You’re right - no one has any idea what the admissions officers are looking for in a given year.</p>
<p>In fact, I know very few kids who got into their reach schools this year. My daughter got into all her “good fit” schools, but was waitlisted by a safety - so “safety” can also be a misnomer. No matter what the student looks like on paper, s/he should ALWAYS consider the very top colleges as pure reach schools.</p>
<p>We were lucky because we made sure that my daughter applied to a full range of schools, but other students are looking at a huge gap between the Ivies/top universities and their safety. They feel like failures when they are anything but.</p>
<p>I’m sure you will love U of T.</p>
<p>edad - I highly doubt I did not understand college admissions. My sister went through the process and I had my grasp on it very early on - much earlier on than most of the students at my school. I don’t know why you are trying to rationalize why I didn’t get in when you don’t even know me and you don’t even know what goes behind those doors any more than we do. The reason why I didn’t get in was completely random, I deserved to get in as much as anyone else who got accepted did. Your attempt to rationalize it by saying either a) I didn’t research schools enough b) I wasn’t a fit or c) I didn’t deserve to is completely ridiculous and does not help anyone. The point of my post is to warn parents how random it is and that it is possible that a deserving student (like myself) not get in. It was not for someone (like yourself) to poke around and find why I didn’t get in. You didn’t read my essays, you don’t know me as a student, and you do not know the reasons why I applied to these schools. So do us a favour and keep your comments on why I didn’t deserve to get in to yourself until you have something meaningful to say.
By the way, Yale does have a close relationship with my school, and at my school it is considered a recruitment prize since it is given out so rarely. They also, if you noticed in my previous posts, sent me letters, called my guidance counselor telling me to apply for some time now. If that’s not recruiting, I don’t know what is.</p>
<p>I am glad you shared your story. I helped my D with her list this year taking into account Andi’s son’s story from last year. I am eternally grateful that she shared that story with all of us. Your story will help others just starting this process. The reality is that at the top schools, no one is assured a spot. My husband accused me of being a pessimist during my D’s application process. Based on my role as an Ivy alum interviewer for years and this site, I felt I was a realist. I still think that! U of T is wonderful. You have so much going for you. Don’t let this sour you. Good luck!</p>
<p>there are a few facts that students need to remind themselves of when looking at schools- because they may go against common sense or emotion.
One is never apply to a school ED if money is a consideration.
Once you apply ED you are telling the school that you are committed to attending, and will come up with the money, even if their aid package is all loans.
Two is- very competitive schools, like Amherst, Swarthmore & especially the Ivy universities are a crapshoot for anyone.</p>
<p>It doesn’t matter if you apply for aid or not, if you were valedictorian or not, how many “hand written” letters they send, or even calls to your home or high school admission office. They want the largest possible class to apply, so they can sift through the thousands of other “recruited” applicants and handpick an energetic, amazing class.</p>
<p>They do attract highly capable, amazing students, many of whom go on to attend college somewhere else & do just great.
It is really a shame that many students don’t realize that being wooed, doesn’t mean you are going to get asked out.</p>
<p>Several of my daughters friends did attend Ivies, but they are pretty indistingusable from other friends that did not.
We didn’t even look, because just weren’t into that whole east coast thang, but we did unfortunately have to watch while a student with stellar grades- awards up the wazoo, who had very unique “hooks”, be courted quite ardously, but then dumped when push came to shove, without even a waitlist placement to let her down “easy”.</p>
<p>They obviously have their reasons behind why they spend so much time and money on recruiting so many, but I agree that it isn’t widely known, how much of a lottery it is.</p>
<p>Thank you for sharing your story. </p>
<p>My son was highly qualified as well and applied to 5 top 10 schools. We knew it was a “crapshoot” also, but felt confident that he would get one. Well, that is all he got… one acceptance, turned down or waitlisted at the others. No money offered at the one either.</p>
<p>He did get in at the state school and at a top 25 school which gave him a nice scholarship which he took. They have treated him very well and seem to be very glad to have him. Has been VERY happy with his choice. </p>
<p>My advice for others is to look seriously at the “good match” schools and those that you may be a little overqualified for. They might be a good choice, offer money and be very pleased to have you attend.</p>
<p>Good luck at U of T!!!</p>
<p>Part of what makes any school like HYP seem like a crapshoot is that applicants don’t know what the “institutional needs” of any school are. If you fit an institutional need, your chances of being admitted to H,Y, or P become greater than the “ordinary” superstar high school applicant.</p>
<p>My gut feeling after going through one round of super-selective admissions with my older D was that Yale did not have much institutional need for undergrad music performers. Harvard, on the other hand, seemed to have lots of music spots they wanted to fill; Claremont schools–not much on the music front; MIT–loves musical kids; Princeton–no opinion; Stanford–didn’t seem to care one way or the other.</p>
<p>Have a great college career at UT. Perhaps Yale will be a possibility for post-grad work. Things do have a way of working out well for those with a positive attitude.</p>
<p>(from the mom of a D who was not offered admission by Yale and is enjoying her college career elsewhere)</p>