Frustrated at daughter for lying about college classes

Parents Forum
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I am so unbelievably angry and frustrated at my daughter right now. She’s a rising sophomore at a top university on the quarter system. This past spring, she took four classes from her school all virtually because of the pandemic. She took a few classes that were very challenging for her (a potentially political science or humanities major): Intro to CS, Statistics, and two environmental science classes. She told me in June when spring quarter ended that she received an A in all her classes… turns out that was a complete lie! Her school this past quarter was on universal pass/fail for everyone because of Corona, which I just found out yesterday because my daughter straight up LIED to my face about grading for this quarter. I logged into her computer and found out that fortunately, she did pass all her classes (not a high bar due to pass/fail).

When I asked my daughter why she lied to me, she said it was because she was afraid of telling me she was taking the easy way out of her school’s requirements. Now, even though my daughter’s strengths and interests do not lie in STEM, my husband and I still expect her (as parents who are paying tons of tuition) to try her best in rigorous and useful STEM classes her school offers. However, she took the easy way out because her school only requires four STEM classes for the least interested kids… all of which she “conveniently” took during pass/fail.

Because of the ridiculously lax grading standards for this term, she barely had to try in her classes to pass. For example, her statistics class (which is SUPER useful to her as a political science major) had a policy for spring term where anyone enrolled in the class would automatically pass. As a result, my daughter did not turn in a single assignment nor a midterm nor the final for the class… and still PASSED! Obviously, hubby and I are INFURIATED at her!

As for the Intro to CS class (which is INCREDIBLY useful in this day and age), the percent needed to pass in the class was a 60%… daughter got a 64%! That’s a D in regular grading standards, but of course it shows up as just a pass. A 64% isn’t even trying! We are so so so disappointed in my daughter for lying to us about her grades, but more importantly, the effort she put into her classes for spring quarter. Python (which is the language the Intro to CS class taught) and R (the language the Statistics class used) are VITAL 21st century skills, regardless of her major. Knowing them is ESSENTIAL to surviving the job market with a (frankly, easy) humanities degree. Hubby and I have NO WORDS to describe our disappointment and anger at our daughter for slacking off on STEM classes (that are most likely going to be the only STEM classes she’ll ever take in college).

Agh!! I’m aghast. Someone please guide us. We are so lost.

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I would take a minute and look around at the world. She passed, I think that is just fine. Not sure where you are but the actual world is about to fall off a cliff. If it is about money, get her to a cheap enough school. You can pay for a coding boot camp sometime in the normal future.

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I understand being upset by the lying. I don’t understand why you are upset about the rest of it.

It sounds like she isn’t a stem kid, and got all her stem requirements out of the way, and passed them. Sounds good to me. Frankly, if this is your reaction to her passing all her courses, I’m not that surprised that she lied.

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In this mess of a world I’d take a deep breath before doing anything. This is a difficult time for everyone. The positive thing is that she passed all her classes and is in good standing at her college.

I think it would be appropriate to have a talk to your D about your disappointment with her lying and with her not giving a full effort in her classes. But I’d keep it all calm (first get out of “anger mode”) and with the understanding that this is an unprecedented and trying time.

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OP, I sincerely understand your frustration. If this is the first time she has tested your trust, you are, in the grand scheme of things, doing okay. It is probably better to lie about a pass/fail option and not about, say, substance abuse.

Figure out what you think would be a fair consequence for her lying to you, sit her down and administer that. What would make you whole? What would teach her the lesson without being overly punitive? What does she have to do to re-earn your trust?

If she needs to give you all the passwords to her college gradebook, ask her to do that (IF you are footing the bill). If you are regretting paying for those classes, ask her to retake statistics or CS (on your dime, for a grade this time) OR work out a payment plan to pay you back (or she is on her own to pay for a future quarter). If her college is going to pull the same grading crap in the fall, perhaps your wallet should consider taking a gap year.

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Take a breath and calm down.

She’s not doing drugs, she’s not pregnant and she isn’t infected with Covid. She’s passed her classes during a very trying period in history.
She sounds like a good kid.
Take the pressure off of her.

As parents, I think most of us raise our children and hope that they can make sound judgments based on our morals, so that by the time they reach college-age, they know the difference between right and wrong and what’s just and unjust.

If she’s afraid of you now, it will get worse if something doesn’t change. You will never know the JOY of being able to have deep, honest conversations with your children if they can’t trust you enough to share information.

I have three adult children, who have not always done what we expected, but they have been honest and upfront. It’s not worth it to them to lie to us. What we’ve told them, that really seems to affect and impact them, is when we have said:
“You know, that really disappointed us”.

This has only happened once, with each child. They want us to be proud of them, and we are. They do learn through their own mistakes and we have to bite our tongue a lot (boyfriends/fiancés, travel issues, job choices, etc.) but they learn lessons.

On another note: Is she taking what you want her to take, or does she have even have a choice? I don’t mean to offend, but please don’t live through your child. You should both be able to enjoy her thriving as an adult.

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That seems like a heavy load for a freshman who’s a non-stem major.

Just because you think that a humanities major who takes math, CS, and 2 science courses at the same time is “taking the easy way out” doesn’t mean it’s true. Instead of getting angry I’d spend some time thinking about why your adult child is afraid to tell you the truth.

Why does it matter how much tuition you’re paying? Shouldn’t you want her to do well (for her sake) no matter who’s paying? A college freshman who has no interest for stem and whose strengths lie elsewhere shouldn’t be forced into classes she’s isn’t ready to take.

Maybe you should take a step back and reexamine what your goals are. It doesn’t sound like they match hers. It might help to have some honest conversations about what she does want. And it wouldn’t hurt to quit passing value judgments on whatever that is.

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That seems like a heavy load for a freshman who's a non-stem major.<<<<

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You are right! Another fishing thread.

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So much to unpack here.

I agree with @me29034 above. Based on your post—the tone, the content, the dialed-up-to-11 reaction—which is all we have to go on—I sympathize with your daughter.

People lie to avoid a bad scene, to avoid punishment, to avoid disappointing someone. She knew she couldn’t be honest with you about her plan to capitalize on the university-wide P/F quarter to get STEM classes out of the way, the classes she cares least about. I actually think it’s a brilliant plan. Clearly, she does not excel in nor does she enjoy these classes.

In addition, she likely gets the message that you think that the courses she enjoys – humanities and poli sci – are “easy” and that you don’t value them. She’s internalizing that disapproval. (FWIW, they are NOT easy courses. Ask a chemical engineering major to write a paper on Nietzsche and see what happens.)

I am not one who believes that because I pay for college, you have to do it my way. That’s very transactional. I believe it’s part of my job as a parent to pay whatever I can for my children’s college. How they use that opportunity is up to them (unless they fail, in which case they obviously have to take a break and figure out what went wrong).

Obviously, failing to do the assignments is not a good plan. If this happened in my family I would not “punish.” I certainly would not feel a need to be made “whole,” as @Groundwork2022 suggested, because it didn’t happen to me, and I don’t think “punishment” works. Do you think she’d respect you more if you punished her? Do you think it would whip her into compliance for the future? What would it do to your relationship? It would just breed resentment and further alienate her from you.

I would, however, initiate a discussion: “What were you thinking? What were you feeling? Do you feel depressed? This is so unlike you. Do you feel you got ANYTHING out of the courses? If you’re ever feeling so unmotivated ever again, please reach out for help from us or from a counselor. This is not a way to approach challenges.”

I also think you are likely over-stating the importance of ONE computer science class and ONE statistics class for her future career. She’s not doomed to a life of unemployment now. You can’t even become a political scientist with a BA in political science. It requires grad school. She’d get the statistics there. Regardless, an infinitesimal number of poli sci majors go on to be actual political scientists. Whatever career she chooses, it is highly unlikely that blowing off a statistics and CS course will hold her back.

But whatever natural consequences she may encounter from blowing off the courses, those consequences will be hers and hers alone.

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When I got a B on a test once in sophomore year of high school, my mom cried for two hours and yelled at me for another hour. So I stopped telling her my grades, and when she asked, I would lie.

While I don’t mean to blame you for your daughter lying to you, I just want you to reflect on your relationship with her and if there’s anything that happened in the past that might encourage your daughter to lie to you.

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Is this even a real post?

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She passed her classes – what is lacking there? She lied about whether they were graded BUT YOU LOGGED INTO YOUR ADULT CHILD’S COMPUTER to check? No momma, no, take a breath. We’ve all been there, but no, step back.

She can’t be a successful anything of her choosing, or yours, if you are backseat driving like this. Paying for college gives you the right to set some collaborative parameters, but not the right to second guess and denigrate. Students need confidence in their abilities and decisions, and this behavior doesn’t get you there.

She isn’t pregnant, dropping out, doing drugs. She didn’t fail classes, she didn’t flunk out, she didn’t run away to the circus. She didn’t hang herself in shame, or run away rather than tell you. It’s okay, She’s okay. You’re okay. Breathe…

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Couple of thoughts. First you sound like YOU picked the classes and not your daughter. My parents never ever picked a class or even commented on it. Also, your thought around what is a useful skill while perhaps even valid seem like a hovering parent to me.

After that’s out of the way, I’d add this. Honesty is very important to us so I would have her pay some portion of that semester for slacking off. Those scores and that approach would mean that our family money was wasted so I would expect something in return.

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Did you have your daughter’s permission to log into her computer and look at her grades? If not, I think that is a serious breach of her trust. It sounds to me like your daughter did not enjoy online learning and crafted a clever strategy to knock out all her STEM requirements while they were P/F with a pretty easy standards to pass. I know You are disappointed with her effort, but we are in unusual times and that you should grant her a little grace. With this kind of reaction by you, I am not surprised that she lied to you. What would have been the benefit of telling the truth, after all, she passed all the classes. If you want to have an open and honest relationship, you might want to try letting go a little.

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FWIW, back in the day, I just barely got through college, mostly because I had way too much fun. And around the time that grades were sent home (or academic probation notices) I would run to the mailbox everyday to be sure my mom never saw them. I did learn some excellent life skills in college! And I have had a highly successful career, and when I went back to grad school I did very well.

And it all comes back around, one of mine really struggled as an undergrad (and hid grades) and now is excelling in grad school.

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OP for what it’s worth I’m with you. I’d be incredibly disappointed if my child ,who clearly is smart and capable (she attends a top school), basically slacked off at the first opportunity. I’d also be extremely disappointed with the school for also taking the easy way out with pass/fail…which conveys to the students that they don’t care whether the kids do any work. She lied because she knew what she did was wrong. If she was confident in her actions she would have defended them, not hid them.

I also think parents have every right to see their kids grades if they’re paying the bill. In many instances we aren’t talking a couple thousand dollars, we’re talking over a quarter of a million dollar investment in education. If I’m paying I get a say. If you want me out then you can pay.

I think it’s worth having the conversation about what happened an how each of you feel about it to work towards perhaps a better understanding of what you expect from her and to find ways that she will feel more comfortable discussing classes etc… with you.

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I’m with @NYMom122. D knew to load up on all the required STEM classes (what college advises a non-stem freshman to do this?) during a pass/fail semester. D must also be psychic since she registered for these classes last fall, before COVID was even a rumble.
I’ve also managed to work in the financial services industry with a humanities degree my entire career and don’t know anyone who can write any code.

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I hate to say it, but I find this post not believable. But if it is…

If the school was on universal pass fail, then pass is just as good as an A. Move on.

This parent needs to take a chill pill. The kid passed the courses. The school offered pass fail. Done.

And do you expect your kid to get all As?

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She was actually pretty clever to get these courses knocked out during the pandemic.

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OP said it’s a school with a quarter system (Northwestern?). I think these classes were taken during spring quarter, which means students had until early April to drop/add.