Frustrating Thanksgiving visit with son.

Parent Cafe
21

My two cents.

It’s hard coming home to a situation where you’re under the “watch” of “mom and dad” after you have moved out, moved to another state and a situation where you are now living with a GF and living daily your own life. Unless you can come home and be fully treated as that adult you are living every other day of the week, it’s awkward.

It could be that something is less than perfect in his live. But if he wants to share he’s going to have to be comfortable to share - not judged. Cause whatever is wrong? Largely - as an adult - it’s his thing to handle. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t need the support of mom and dad but he doesn’t need one/two more people to have to please in the situation.

What you describe sounds like a household this week that has been tight and terse. Relax! Do what you would normally do! Try and spoil him a bit - not with $ and big gifts but offer to make some hot chocolate when you’re watching a movie, make his favorite breakfast.

Thank him for helping you this morning with the UPS drop off. Offer a coffee shop stop for a 20 minute reprieve. I think it’s ok to say “I sense that something is up” BUT not in a judging “spill the beans” way. Be like a friend not a mom. Let him know you miss him - him as a human being - and let him know while it’s a transition for you too, you can be a good listener (IF you can be - you are going to have to also work to change your role/relationship from parent to “a caring family member who loves and enjoys you”.

If he wants to come home for Christmas, help him make it happen. Maybe he can split costs. Don’t be keeping a $$$ tab. Keep a love and support tab - and don’t let that pot ever run out.

22

I would personally say something, but not about the job. To me, the worrisome thing that you can address is your own relationship. I’d say something along the lines that you feel some tension in the relationship - and is there anything YOU (Mom) can do to improve things? If he shuts you down, so be it, but at least put out there that you love him, you’ll always be here for him, and he is welcome to come home any time he wants.

We always pay for our kids to come home because we don’t want them to have any excuse NOT to come. YMMV.

23

Definitely agree with other posters - your comment about “asking pointed questions” juxtaposed with wanting him to “act like an adult” immediately jumped out at me.

I really don’t think the vacation thing is a big deal. Most likely he got TH/F off, then he took M/TU/W. After 4 months he probably had 3 days accrued. Regardless, it’s his thing to figure out, not Mom’s.

As a general comment - I’m not sure about other industries, but in my industry (tech) unlimited vacation is definitely a thing. Not super widespread, but not uncommon. I personally am entitled to it, but I started this job about 18 months ago and have only taken about 5 days so far. As the new guy on the team of course I’m busting my butt, but I’m looking forward to a long break once I’m in the groove.

24

I so get your frustration. The tie thing would drive me crazy. The millenials don’t see it as insubordination because they are taking over the workplace. My company had to relax the dress code a couple of years ago for all but my department (the lawyers). Now the men don’t have to wear ties and everyone can wear dress jeans (not in my department).

We just kicked son 3 (“OK Boomer” boy, age 23) out of the house yesterday because he refused to go to the job H got him after 2 days. At least your son is capable of getting a job.

25

techmom99- I would have a fit if our legal department wasn’t allowed to follow the relaxed dress code! Our corporate office just switched to “dress for your day” and our GC and our dept was asked to sort of model how to do it properly. I hope they let you off the hook!

26

“Unlimited vacation or time off” means that the count of time off is not tracked for accounting purposes. Obviously, if someone takes so much time off that it reduces work productivity, that can impact evaluation as an employee with respect to pay changes, promotions or demotions, or dismissals.

In practice, employees at employers with such policies typically do not take more time off than at employers that track time off. It does have an advantage for employers in that there is no bank of unused time off that needs to be paid out on separation.

27

Seems like the kind of employer that would be the butt of jokes about stupid workplace policies. If a particular workplace dress code aspect is not necessary (for whatever purpose workplace dress codes may exist for) for an entire month, why would it need to exist at all in other months?

28

The merits of the dress code are not important; the man knew or should have known of it when he accepted employment, and is always able to seek alternative employment if he wishes.

29

The nonprofit I volunteer for gives their staff, mostly millenials, 25 days of personal time. It can be sick time, vacation time, whatever. The management just asked that the employees give notice for anything other than sick time. Well, the young people just didn’t get it. Over and over again, they would call out when they weren’t sick. They felt those 25 days were theirs and they didn’t need to notify their bosses. So a policy was instituted that said they would get a warning after five callouts (if you were sick three days, that just counted as one callout). One or two more callouts would be grounds for termination.

I wish we had gotten that much time off! DH and I had NO vacation time our first year, typical for our area. Then we got two weeks/year after that.

30

In some businesses/fields, August is a very slow month with no client interface. I worked for a non-profit educational institution that worked with federal employees/Congress. August was dead for us such that we were given five weeks annual leave but two of those weeks had to be used in August. While we had a relaxed dress code anyway (business casual before it was common) but in August we could wear pretty much anything. No one came to our office in August; it was a skeleton staff mostly to answer the random phone call. However, once September came, we were back to business as usual.

@conmama I have no advice as I don’t have any adult children out on their own yet, but I’m sorry your son’s visit home has caused you, and him, some distress.

31

@MomofWildChild -

The dress code doesn’t bother me. I would never dream of wearing pants to work or to court. My boss, a female from another country, wears pant suits so I know it would be ok, but I have never liked how I look in them. I only wear skirt suits if I am on trial or going to a Bar function. Otherwise, I wear dresses or skirts and blouses, , usually with a jacket, sweater or cardigan. The male attorneys are allowed to dress down on Fridays, when they can wear jeans and polo shirts. One of the reasons why my office can’t do every day dress down is that we attorneys have to be ready to go to court on a moment’s notice. Some of the guys leave a spare shirt or tie in the office and I used to leave a suit, but now I just dress as if I needed to go to court every day.

32

I see a number of red flags - things that are under your control in the relationship.

  1. “We paid for the plane ticket, which I now think was a mistake.”
 I'm sure your son senses your frustration at his presence.  The above statement makes it sound as if you put a monetary value on your DS - and he isn't worth the cost to you.  I suspect he reads that into the situation also.
  1. "we ask him the pointed questions and he doesn’t like that. "
As a 26 year old, how would you have reacted to criticism thinly veiled as direct questions as to your life and work?
  1. “I try to bring up other topics, but he won’t engage”
If other interactions have been negative, invasive and didactic from your perspective, would you trust that other conversations won't also turn against you?  I see it as quite positive that your DS is polite.
  1. “I think he’s 1) waiting to see if we will offer to pay”
 Again, suggests to me that you don't think he is worth your money.  If I can pick up the attitude, I suspect he can.
  1. “rethinking the pickle he’s got himself into with vacation days.”
 This is his problem to deal with - if it is a problem.  It does not need to become your concern.
  1. “he would have the maturity to act more like an adult visiting home, …, especially since we paid his way and gave him a very generous bday gift a month ago…”
I don't read into your question and description of events that you are treating him as an adult who is responsible for his own life.  From his perspective, he is using his vacation days to visit you.  That visit has allowed you to question and criticize him.  He is not sensing parental support, just parental authority.   I'm also sure he can sense the quid pro quo you expect - we pay, so you owe us certain behaviors.  He may well not know why his actions are upsetting you - he is polite, he retreats to his room for "space", he avoids repeating interactions that have been unpleasant.  This seems rather mature to me.
  1. “meaning connecting with parents even a little, trying to initiate conversation”

Why should he initiate a conversation when previous interactions have resulted in being told how “bonehead” his actions are? It doesn’t sound to me as if you are treating him as an adult, rather as a middle schooler in need of discipline and direction. At his age, his mistakes are his mistakes and the consequences are his also. It doesn’t sound as if your previous attempts have changed his actions. The current course is also unlikely to be effective.

I would suggest that you are not going to change him by continuing with the current approaches. Speaking with a counselor/therapist about ways in which you can positively interact with him might be helpful. His “choices” may, indeed, be problematic, but he is obviously not open to your advice as it is currently being presented.

33

“The dress code doesn’t bother me. I would never dream of wearing pants to work or to court. My boss, a female from another country, wears pant suits so I know it would be ok, but I have never liked how I look in them. I only wear skirt suits if I am on trial or going to a Bar function. Otherwise, I wear dresses or skirts and blouses, , usually with a jacket, sweater or cardigan. The male attorneys are allowed to dress down on Fridays, when they can wear jeans and polo shirts. One of the reasons why my office can’t do every day dress down is that we attorneys have to be ready to go to court on a moment’s notice. Some of the guys leave a spare shirt or tie in the office and I used to leave a suit, but now I just dress as if I needed to go to court every day.”

Wow. At our Chicago law firm women almost never wear skirt suits or even” pants suits”. Pants and blazers on court days is more typical for women. Only fir the very rare instance of a jury trial or appellate argument do women wear any suit. . Men wear suits on court days. Both genders keep court wear in the offices because unless court is planned we wear jeans or business casual, but can be ready to go if necessary.

34

I can’t believe how far things have moved. A mom asks a educated, 26 year old man how is it you get a week off after being on a job three months as intrusive or odd? Especially following being fired just a few months ago for a laissez faire attitude.

It’s her son. He’s 26.

And if the surprise is to come home and sit in your room it just feels off.

He has a live in girlfriend. It’s thanksgiving. Is she home with him?

How is your relationship with her. Does she seem productive.

My concern is around opioid abuse. It’s a real problem folks and worthy to have caution around this behavior.

35

It is hard to not give unsolicited advice. I limit that to life threatening situations only, which are very rare.

We took an attitude early on in their adulthood that holidays are not as important as just getting to see them any time of year. This could be at their place, our place, or points unknown. No obligation and no pressure.

36

It can be a very tough transition period for parents AND young adults to navigate. Young adults might feel they are always being sized up or judged by their parents even if the parents say nothing openly or obviously critical!

One of my friends was telling me she feels like her 50-something year old husband changes the minute he walks through his elderly parents house at the holidays! It’s like everyone immediately takes their “role” – and in his case, it’s not exactly joyful interaction!

I do NOT want this to be us!

One of the tricks I find helpful if I sense a bumpy ride is to act as if my own kids (early 20s) are someone else’s kids. In conversation, I’d be curious, but not invasive. I would not offer advice unless asked. I’d be working to make the visit pleasant for my guest. It would be LIGHT. I’d have almost no expectations, right?

That might sound weird, but really, you might realize the whole thing changes in your head and makes the visit more joyful for everyone.

The other trick I’ve used is to completely avoid questions! Instead of saying, “How is work going?”, I’ll say “I hope you are enjoying work!”. Instead of “What are your plans for Xmas break?” I’ll say “I hope you are able to come home over break! We’d love to see you, if you are able to get away” This is not a forever plan or trick, but with tense relationships, I’ve found it very effective. Build up the bank of goodwill and pleasant interactions.

There are plenty of people on this earth who can barely tolerate their parents and visiting home. The parents do play a part in this although I want to be perfectly clear I’m NOT saying it’s all the parents fault.

As with everything, we can only control our own actions and reactions.

Good luck!

37

I’m listening carefully!

38

I am a planner. It makes me crazy that my kids are ok with making last minute flight reservations and plans but S says they are often very reasonable so he’s fine with it.

For example, he just bought a plane ticket with 7500 points which I believe is about $75 from IAD to HNL. He says you have to book 330 days out or very near flying date to get great deals.

When our “kids” who are 30 & 32 come home for visits or we meet them anywhere for visits, we just try to enjoy each other’s company. There is very little “lecturing” or “deep conversation”unless they initiate it.

I find that they shut down and are less forthcoming when I’m “pushier.” I offer to help D with tickets. S never seems to need any help.

Our S often earns a lot of “comp” time to add to his generous vacation time. As far as I know he’s never had problems at work, so I can und estand why you re concerned about your S who has.

39

If our kids need help paying for plane tickets to come here during the holidays, we gladly help them…with NO strings attached.

Our kids are 30 somethings. While we offer advice when they ask, we really don’t probe, and probe into their jobs, money or personal affairs unless they ask our opinions.

If you feel your son is in some personal danger or something, then yes, speak up. But it sounds (from what you posted here) that he didn’t meet your expectations for a trip you paid for, and isn’t listening or wanting to hear your unsolicited advice.

There has to be a happy medium here…but saying you have second thoughts about paying for the ticket really strikes me as odd.

40

@techmom99 Wow. My environment is quite different. We can wear jeans now any day unless there is a reason we shouldn’t. I rarely go to court. I would wear blazer and slacks or a dress/blazer. Skirt suits are never seen around here. I’m with @maya54 . Of course, I work for a company that focuses on farming and casual lifestyle. That said, for the young man who wouldn’t wear the tie when required, an employer has a right to set hours and dress codes. If you want to work there, you need to comply. That can be a hard lesson to learn. And, yes, the “unlimited vacation time” thing is really for accounting purposes and creates some real issues in the legal/HR area as to how various departments monitor it.