<p>Golani:
You don’t tolerate Conservative Jews. You don’t tolerate homosexual ‘behavior’. What about the Bene Israel Jews? Real or fake?</p>
<p>What do you meani dont tolerate conservative jews? How? I am Jewish, conservative Jews are Jewish, reform Jews are Jewish, its all a matter of the their observance and matter of belief. Go up and bit and read the part where I mention not being completely observant, thus not meeting the standards of orthodox. So does that mean I dont tolerate myself. Ofcourse they are Jews. To be Jewish is again not a matter of observance, but a matter of who you are. If your mother was Jewish, then you are Jewish. If you had a conversion in accordane to halacha then you are Jewish. As a matter of interest, the rabbincial authorities in Israel deemed most of the bene Israel Jewish, which is a very tough thing to do, but using genealogy and other things that I am not sure about they were able to determine if these people are Jewish or not</p>
<p>I recommend you people reconsider the usage of the word “intolerant”. Its easy to throw it around, but hard to explain. I think its very unfair to label me like that everytime you disagree with anything I say. What if I started just calling you an idiot every post, which I have done in the past even though its not fair if i cannot prove it or explain it properly.</p>
<p>mommusic,
Many species also eat their offspring. I don’t look to the animal world for human social norms.</p>
<p>Golani, you just talk circles around yourself, and make not an iota of sense.</p>
<p>I am all done with this nonsense.</p>
<p>Nice. Perhaps you have nothing real to say.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You, sir, are incoherant.</p>
<p>logo:
Not for human social norms. But if someone says that homosexuality is not ‘natural’, well then lets take a look at nature.</p>
<p>I can explain. The thing is you just do not want to understand. Being Jewish is an identity, no matter what your level of observance is. Conservative and reform Judaism is simply a watered down version. They took “god’s laws” and changed them to fit their needs. They simply do not follow the laws of observance to the full accord, but they are Jewish. Its simply a matter of observance level.</p>
<p>God’s laws were “watered down” at least twice before: first, on the return of Ezra from Babylon, when they couldn’t find a single torah scroll and started from scratch until they found some old papers (and he then rewrote the whole thing from competing texts), and second, after 70 A.D. and the destruction of the Second Temple, when about half of the 613 laws were erased as rules for Temple sacrifice, the maintenance of priests, Levites, and tabernacle were eliminated virtually in their entirety. </p>
<p>Orthodox Judaism of today has virtually no resemblance to Judaism of the first century (some Jewish scholars have gone as far as to maintain that Judaism as we know it was created after the destruction of the Second Temple, making it, for the most part, younger than Christianity.)</p>
<p>That is not true. I dont know where you go that information. If you are thinking about the oral law, which is seperate from the written law, everywthing was done in accordance to halacha. I think you would be surprised if you just simply talked to a local orthodox rabbi. Although I would be interested to read what you claim.</p>
<p>As for the laws regarding the temple: Many of the laws cannot be observed because of no temple, the laws however still exist and have not been erased, and when the 3rd temple is built, the laws will again be followed. If you do not believe me just open a Torah and read from it the pasukim dealing with the temple and the ways to carry it out.</p>
<p>You know much less about me than you think.</p>
<p>So should I assume the first claim you made, is just some kind of fantasy, or you took a part of something true and changed it to fit your need? Because the second claim you made about laws involving the temple showed to me you did not know what you were talking about since every year i read in the torah about the laws involving the temple even though u claimed they were erased</p>
<p>Mini, give it up. golani is on a different planet.</p>
<p>or give up because ur wrong</p>
<p>
Then stop being intolerant, close-minded, non-accepting and homophobic. These words obviously make you uncomfortable. If you believe that being gay is wrong if you do not tolerate gays if your mind is closed to the idea of granting them equal rights, - then its only fair if we describe you as such! In the first half of the past century plenty of people (Ivy League types, I should say to be momentarily on-topic ) said that oh, they certainly didnt hate Jews, they werent anti-Semites or anything, they just didnt want them joining the golf club or going to the same universities. It was no longer socially acceptable to be an open anti-semite, so they bristled at the use of the word to describe them, but that doesnt mean that there attitudes werent precisely that. </p>
<p>
Uh huh. So if I affix Sephardic or Haredi to the word Judaism then it means that that isnt real Judaism. It is possible to be a fully devoted member of a religion without taking every word of a text written by men three millennia at face value. Are Jews who believe in, say, the Big Bang theory, or that the earth orbits the Sun not true Jews because a literal reading of the Torah says otherwise?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The sole lifestyle that gays want to have the legal right to is precisely the lifestyle that social conservatives are really keen on: stable marriage, kids, SUVs and all the rest. You deny them that and you are wrong to do so. </p>
<p>
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Many jurisdictions have a blanket ban on gay couples adopting regardless of the lifestyle they lead.</p>
<p>
Nope. The behavior is a pretext. The reason is invariably simple bigotry. Many, many employers the Boy Scouts, the US military - (Israels is more enlightened) will fire you the instant you come out even if you dont display the slightest deviant behavior. </p>
<p>To go back to the original point: You continue to fail to offer a coherent reason why homosexuals WHO LIVE IN JERUSALEM shouldnt march for equal rights IN THEIR HOME TOWN.</p>
<p>Can you offer a single argument besides quoting an ancient legendarium of dubious provenance as to why you disapprove of homosexuality?</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Read the rest of that paragraph and lets see you prove that I am what you describe. I cant make the connection between Jews joining country clubs and gay marrying perhaps you could elaborate?</p></li>
<li><p>Sephardic Judaism does not differ halachakly from Ashkenaz Judaism, however it differs in tradition, aside from a few issues where tradition becomes your personal law. Haredi Judaism follows the same Judaism that Sephardics follow except they have different traditions such as the hats they wear and the clothes they wear. Jews are Jews its simple as that. Their differences lie in tradition and level of observance. No one is less of a Jew if they dont abide by a certain religious point, they are merely less observant to the extent of that pt. Also aside from Maimonedes 13 principles much of Judaism focuses not on what you believe or think, but on what you do. If you read some earlier posts in the proper context the fact that a Jew is a Jew regardless of level of observance is already mentioned by me, you must have accidently skimmed over that, thought.</p></li>
<li><p>They can buy an SUV if they want, but they should not be allowed to marry in the form that they seek, because it will force me to recognize something that I do not want to. Additionally, the defition of marriage is between female and male. Just like your computer is a computer and not a frog, marriage is male and female. If they want to marry in a seperate institution from straights and call it something else, by all means let them…It is better for a kid to be raised by a father and a mother. It is healthier for his pyscological growth. In fact ask any kid if he has a preferance for the sexual orientation of his parents or ask a kid who has a mother but no father, if he wished he had a dad. Or ask a kid with a dad, but no mom, if he wished he had a mom.</p></li>
<li><p>The behavior I was referring to was a sexual orientation and living with a same-sex partner. See the end of pt 3 for more elaboration.</p></li>
<li><p>“Nope. The behavior is a pretext. The reason is invariably simple bigotry” Why is this “invariably”. Just because you say it, it does not make it true. Having open homosexuals in the military hurts unit cohesion. It can create uneeded tension, it can break the male bonding that occurs, if a sexual relationship emerges among two gay men in the military, it can hurt the whole unit, because one might act out of emotional and sexual feelings. Homosexual intercourse greatly increases the risk of AIDS and HIV viruses, which can spread through the military, when males isolated from anyone started sodomizing eachother. Then there is the issue of blood infection when someone gets cut and his blood and cuts can often mix with someone elses. The Israeli military has many social problems, but its situation forces it to take everyone they can, thankfully America’s does not, yet. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>This is an international parade in Jerusalem, not one being put on by residents, “WHO LIVE IN JERUSALEM” in your words ofcourse . I numerous times said my reason, but you might have missed it accidently, so I will repeat it once more: Jerusalem is a speical and holy city. ITs residents are special. Jerusalem is not like New York, Amsterdam, Paris, or Tel Aviv-I think you would agree that there is a great distinction between J’lem and these cities. This gay parade will march imodest and scantily clad homosexuals and transexuals through the streets of the holiest city in the world for Jews and many Christians. In Judaism one of the most important values is a traditional home, a family, consiting of male and female parents and children. The gay parade will essentially be marching against the values of Judaism in Judaism’s holiest city. Aside from that, it was offend many religious Jews, Christians, and Muslims who live there. They will hear, see, and feel the presence of this parade. They have escaped to Jerusalem to live in a holy city away from some of the things they dont want to see or experience. There kids will see grown men kissing, or wearing women’s clothes at ages where it is wrong for them to see it, but it will offend these religious people more so than it would offend anyone in say, Tel Aviv. There is a time and place for everything, as you will surely agree, however Jerusalem is not the place for a Gay parade. This hurts and offends the sensibilities of religious people and traditionalists all over the world. This parade is not a matter of “gay rights” it is a matter of coming out against the establishment of religion and traditionalism and spitting in their face. What better place to do that than Jerusalem? I cant seem to think of one. It is not necessary for the parade to be held in Jerusalem while it IS necessary for the city and its inhabitants to be shielded from this showing. No one is asking this gay group to not parade, although it is slightly ridiculous to having a parade in honor of your sexual orientation, (imagine the uproar if straight people had a parade), they are asking them to not parade in a specific city. Tel Aviv-fine. New York-fine. Jerusalem-no.</p>
<p>You ask me to offer a single argument besides quoting an ancient legendarium of dubious provenance as to why I disapprove of homosexuality. unfortunately, I cannot do that because I do not disaprove of homosexuality, rather the behavior of certain homosexuals. The quotation you tell me to not use does not in fact even exist. What you possibly might mean is the wuotation that says sodomy is an abomination. It does not say homosexuality. Also, for next time I ask you to be more tolerant and openminded about the Torah or bible, because for me those quoations do not have “dubious provenance”</p>
<p>“I cannot do that because I do not disaprove of homosexuality, rather the behavior they have because of it.”</p>
<p>What the flying f*** are you saying? You are completely incomprehensible.</p>
<p>Ummm, let me check my calendar… Yes, I was right, it IS the 21st century.</p>
<p>OK, please continue.</p>
<p>talk about liberal openmindedness and tolerance for everyone</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sorry, this makes no sense to me at all. If you don’t want to “recognize” that two people choose to live in a stable, committed relationship with legal rights that should be available to them, then just put your head back in the sand. Nobody is forcing you personally to recognize anything. You obviously refuse to recognize anything outside your preconceived notions regardless.</p>