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<p>I could be wrong but I get the impression that dominant, assertive is what top IB’s are looking for in their hiring. If so, I don’t see how discouraging it prepares students who are mostly headed that way. I am not saying it is a good thing just that it comes with the territory.</p>
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<p>Maybe not only in IB.</p>
<p>When DS was late in high school, he once told us that he got the impression that very self-confident, assertive is what the girls are looking for in boys who they are attracted to. It matters very little whether the boy is good academically or not. A “C” students could be very confident in everything including what he is not good at: the academics, but an “A” students are not necessarily always so.</p>
<p>If there is some truth in it, maybe these dominant, assertive men used to be the “winners” who got girls in high school so they continue to do so in the business world after they grow up.</p>
<p>Also, coincident or not, two of the most dominant and assertive suitemates in DS’s freshmen suite ended up heading to business/law – it does not hurt their families are well-off (and likely well-connected.) These two suitemates actually had some serious conflict with each other at one time because they happen to be attracted to the same girl and the girl could not decide which one to choose for some time (i.e., she was attracted to both.) Fortunately, both these “alpha male type” suitemates moved out after the freshmen year and DS’s suite became more peaceful in the next 3 years. (One of them even did not flush the toilet after the use. Gross! But, hey, he got girls.)</p>
<p>My point is that maybe the culture encourages them to do so implicitly.</p>
<p>To some extent. But it all gets more complicated when you realize that there are all sorts of things MBAs do. For example, the dominant assertive consultant, not so much. The tech world? Not looking for that much testosterone. </p>
<p>The IB world is small and getting smaller. The world of other things bigger, more global. Learning to listen might be more highly valued even in IB as more and more ipo candidates come to recognize they were ripped off. </p>
<p>Harvard put the stenographers in there for a reason. Even they know the world is changing. </p>
<p>Anyone who doesn’t know this is already pretty far behind the curve.</p>
<p>Aries, you “despise chatty people”? Isn’t that a little strong for what is not a criminal offense? </p>
<p>As for the rest of your point, I agree that people at a certain level need to be responsible for their participation. </p>
<p>On the other hand, managers must manage, not just make decisions. It’s up to them to get the most out of their people. I’m not holding myself up as any genius or anything, but the most insightful comment I got at a meeting was after I’d done the initial presentation and was soliciting comments and ideas. One woman didn’t say anything, but she had an expression on her face. So I said it looked like she might have a comment and I’d love to hear it. So she up and made the one best comment I’d heard all quarter. Now you can criticize her for not offering it without prompting, but I choose to be grateful for her thoughtfulness. </p>
<p>What this “assertive male” dominance does not take into account is the personality types. Some people need to be direct. Some need to be “chatty” for a moment before they come out with their comments. Some do better one on one. </p>
<p>If managers only accommodate one style of personality, they are missing out on a lot of valuable contribution to their job.</p>
<p>Here is what HBS grads end up doing (note that relatively few - 12% - go into technology):</p>
<p>By function: </p>
<p>FINANCE 35%
CONSULTING 25%
GENERAL MANAGEMENT 12%
MARKETING 9%
STRATEGIC PLANNING 8%
BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT 7%
OTHER 5%</p>
<p>By Industry:</p>
<p>FINANCIAL SERVICES 35%
CONSULTING 25%
TECHNOLOGY 12%
HEALTHCARE 7%
MANUFACTURING 7%
RETAIL 4%
CONSUMER PRODUCTS 3%
ENTERTAINMENT/MEDIA 3%
NON-PROFIT/GOVERNMENT 3%<br>
SERVICES (INCLUDES REAL ESTATE) 2%</p>
<p>[MBA</a> Statistics - About Us - Harvard Business School](<a href=“History - About - Harvard Business School”>http://www.hbs.edu/about/facts-and-figures/Pages/mba-statistics.aspx)</p>
<p>From the text, I did not come to understand that the women were afraid to raise their hands, but rather that their customary style for hand raising was such that the professors did not see those raised hands in a roomful of hands raised by men who were doing so in a different style. Perhaps part of the difficulty lay in the professor’s inability to fully notice all of their students - something all instructors find themselves struggling with on occasion. </p>
<p>Clearly classroom management at HBS has its challenges. In addition to the stenographers and specialized “take charge” seminars for the young female professors, a series of “notice the kid in the corner” seminars would be in order for the older male professors. Given that most of them have entered academia after multiple years in the business world, it is entirely possible that these older gentlemen are lacking in the fundamentals of andragogic theory and practice.</p>
<p>In law school, the professors used seat assignment charts and would just randomly call on students to participate. Some profs would make notations on them to keep track. I don’t know why that approach couldn’t also be used for class participation points in an MBA setting.</p>
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<p>One can be direct and blunt without browbeating or yelling at others. If anything, browbeating and yelling IMO are signs the individual is trying to steamroll others through bullying and/or lacks other skills…including more persuasive communication skills. </p>
<p>IMO…if one has to browbeat/yell at others…they/their points have already lost much credibility much like a temper-tantrum throwing toddler.</p>
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<p>In addition to that, HBS needs to crack down hard on students who act so disrespectfully towards faculty…especially junior faculty by browbeating/yelling at them. </p>
<p>Starting with encouraging Profs. to order the student to leave the class and to use security to forcibly escort them out and if there are repeated incidents…expel them without any refunds and treat the retained tuition money as an “idiot tax” for such atrocious classroom conduct. Especially by people who are supposedly adults much older than your traditionally aged undergrads. </p>
<p>It’s odd as while I did my stint as a substitute instructor for a friend’s community college course, I was notified by his department that I had the option of calling in security to deal with any disruptive students who refused to leave when their behavior was such I felt it was necessary to ask them to do so.</p>
<p>Thank you for that breakdown bay. Clearly HBS realized it is time to change with the world and they’re taking steps. </p>
<p>The future is not the past. We, of all generations, should see this clearly, if nothing else.</p>
<p>The comments are worth reading. A number of graduates of other business schools pointed out their schools didn’t have the same problems (Tuck, Booth, London, etc.) This isn’t necessarily a “business school” issue so much as a “Harvard Business School” issue. </p>
<p>Perhaps the admissions department needs to become more holistic in admitting a class. :)</p>
<p>Kellogg and Booth don’t have such problems.</p>
<p>I was going to say that. Stanford really focused on listening and true collaboration when SIL was going thru. Of course I highly doubt the best tech geniuses are always trying to shout each other down. </p>
<p>Listening, bringing the best out in the people around you, these seem to be valuable qualities in a board room.</p>
<p>Well, HBS is clearly behind the times. I know that’s heresy because we’re all supposed to believe Harvard does Everything Brilliantly All The Time, but well, whatever.</p>
<p>And the macho posturing of investment banking? It’s so behind the times as well. It’s like wearing a mullet. The rest of the business world has moved well beyond this.</p>
<p>One has to wonder what connection there is between the prevailing attitudes at HBS and the state of our financial sector, given how many of the school’s graduates end up there.</p>
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<p>I know nothing about investment banking, but that mullet reference had me laughing!</p>
<p>Is it really behind the times? I sure hope that’s the case. The tidbits I hear doesn’t sound that way tho.</p>
<p>About the stats where HBS grads go, do they represent their first choice? Do they all get their first choice job? If not, that won’t tell us much about the local culture at HBS. The culture will likely be dictated by a dominating group and not reflect everyone equally.</p>
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<p>Agree completely. One of the first things I thought of when I read this article was that the description of HBS students sounds a lot like the “masters of the universe” who drove the economy into ruin.</p>
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<p>Agreed on first based on cousin-in-law’s experience there. </p>
<p>Not sure about the second sentence as I’ve seen plenty of shouting matches among folks in the tech industry trying to maintain a shred of techie cred. PC vs Mac, Unix System V vs BSD, Sun vs Digital vs Silicon Graphics, Redhat/Mandrake/Mint/Ubuntu(More userfriendly) vs Slackware/Gentoo/Anti-X(More techie oriented/streamlined), etc…</p>
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<p>To prove their bonafides in that department, maybe they should go to the flattest part of the Midwest in all their finest formal wear, await a serious thunderstorm, and emulate these '80s cartoon heroes:</p>
<p>[He-Man</a> & She-Ra Transformation - YouTube](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Y-JiRUIoI]He-Man”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Y-JiRUIoI)</p>
<p>If nothing else…they’ll emerge with a memorable experience…and an interesting hairdo. 
:D</p>
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<p>Wow, talk about self-referential nerdfests. It’s like Big Bang Theory come to life. Do these people realize that no one other than themselves care about any of this stuff, that we just want our computers to turn on and work for us? Or do they actually think they come across as cool?</p>
<p>PG, you are on a roll! :)</p>
<p>Not sure if one can conclude that going IB is “behind the times” when it still pays the most.</p>